Official ICC World T20 thread

Chris said:
You think so? IIRC, he wasn't dropped or anything. If anything, Pakistan gave us more chances - completely messing up Smith's catch and dropping AB De Villiers first ball.
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Thats always been the nature of afridi. Most of the time he isnt very good, and you'll get him out easy. But every now and then he transforms into an unstoppable force which wins you games.

Gibbs is similar. Often he will get caught with the easiest of catches, and then on another day he will get you to 430 plus. But in saying that, gibbs is much more consistent.
 
And further, everybody has stats, its just that Kallis' is much better than the others.

And all those boundaries , strike rates etc came off one 'dead rubber' game less than the others.

This loss is not a surprise to the pakistanis etc. If I could find these stats in 5min, then don't you think their team analysts would have gone through each player in more detail, including the type of shots they play to different balls and at what time of the innings, under pressure etc.

So who do you think they feared? The bloke with 32 boundaries in 5 innings' or the blokes with 7 from 6 or 6 from 6.

Its not luck that Smith hit two identical chances and its not luck that both Gibbs and de Villiers were bowled the same way or that Duminy sruggled.

Rather than criticise Kallis' correct style...remember its easier for the bowlers to eliminate the type of balls that lead to improvised shots (because those become predictable too) than to stifle correct stroke play.
That is why they couldn't stop Kallis.

I wasn't always a fan of Kallis because I believed the crap that the media put on him...but you have to wake up to reality. He has proven to all that he performs in all forms of the game and is not a stats player...just the best player.

cheers
 
OzzieCapie said:
He is not going to Devill....thanks for seeing the obvious.



He has the highest runs etc etc because he is playing the best and therefore it follows that his stats are the best. His stats against evrybody else proves that he was the best SA batsman in the tournament. What more do you want the bloke to do.

The batsman with the highest score in the innings especially if opening, is the only person entitled to bat slower than the average required run rate.

What did Kallis do? You know the stats, you say he plays for them?

Required RR (net of extras)*:
v Pakistan: 113...Kallis 118, rest of batsmen 94
v England: 93....Kallis, 116 rest of batsmen 88
and highest score in both innings.
* the RR is lower because I have deducted the extras..otherwise apportion the extras pro rata and the RR's of all are higher...no difference.

Then you say "the odd four":

v Pakistan: Kallis 7 fours 1 six, rest 5 fours 1 six
v England: Kallis 5 fours, 1 six, rest 4 fours 1 six

Total boundaries:

Kallis is second on list, 28 fours and 4 sixes =32 , 3 behind Dilshan.

Next SA batsmen are:
De Villiers 22, Smith 22, Gibbs 14, Duminy 7, Morkel 6 what????
...would you guys have thought it was like this just from memory...or did you need the stats to show you.
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What's that saying - "There are lies, damned lies and statistics" ;)...you can make most statistics prove whatever you want. Upon further examination we can see the following:

1) Duminy faced 2 balls against Scotland, so that's one less innings already (3 now that I look at England & WI)
2) AB Morkel didn't bat at all against Scotland, England and had 10 balls against NZ and 8 against India. Of course you are making fair comparisons :rolleyes:
3) If we really wanted to get technical, I'd calculate how many boundaries one got per balls faced, but I am too lazy to calculate that :p
4) As opening batsmen, we would expect Kallis to score more boundaries than the rest, especially since he it's extremely easy to score boundaries in the 1st 6 overs - not so? Ok, I will admit the "odd four" was creative on my part :D, but I was particularly talking about last night's game. It is, in fact, quite amazing that AB De Villiers comes second considering he bats at no 4 or 5 usually when the fielders are out on the boundary.

Please explain this Run Rate thing you are calculating - I have no idea what you are on about :confused:

Anyway - you can look at the past but what matters is that Kallis and Duminy were solely responsible for taking up the RR from 8 to 12. They both sat idly doing very little to stem the tide. Kallis only started hitting a six when it was 11/over. Sorry, most teams won't go at 11/over for 7 overs, even if it is 20/20.
 
Chris said:
What's that saying - "There are lies, damned lies and statistics" ;)...you can make most statistics prove whatever you want. Upon further examination we can see the following:

1) Duminy faced 2 balls against Scotland, so that's one less innings already (3 now that I look at England & WI)
2) AB Morkel didn't bat at all against Scotland, England and had 10 balls against NZ and 8 against India. Of course you are making fair comparisons :rolleyes:
3) If we really wanted to get technical, I'd calculate how many boundaries one got per balls faced, but I am too lazy to calculate that :p
4) As opening batsmen, we would expect Kallis to score more boundaries than the rest, especially since he it's extremely easy to score boundaries in the 1st 6 overs - not so? Ok, I will admit the "odd four" was creative on my part :D, but I was particularly talking about last night's game. It is, in fact, quite amazing that AB De Villiers comes second considering he bats at no 4 or 5 usually when the fielders are out on the boundary.

Please explain this Run Rate thing you are calculating - I have no idea what you are on about :confused:

Anyway - you can look at the past but what matters is that Kallis and Duminy were solely responsible for taking up the RR from 8 to 12. They both sat idly doing very little to stem the tide. Kallis only started hitting a six when it was 11/over. Sorry, most teams won't go at 11/over for 7 overs, even if it is 20/20.
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You and killa seem to know so much I am voting for you two to be the new selectors.....

For what national team are you and killa playing? Win anything lately?

Pakistan bowled well, we sent in the wrong guy at the wrong time and Kallis did his job.
 
So devil in your eyes duminy and kallis did well last night and did their best to keep the run rate down?

You keep asking us but have you won anything? what team are you playing for?

Just as you have your opinion we have ours, your acting like your opinion means more but actually it does not. So some people think duminy and kallis let the run rate go and others believe they are heroes so let's move on already :).
 
Chris said:
It is, in fact, quite amazing that AB De Villiers comes second considering he bats at no 4 or 5 usually when the fielders are out on the boundary.
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Fair point , let's restrict the analysis to the top four. Yes Duminy didn't get a chance against Scotland, but De Viliiers got 43% of his runs against them and still only averaged 37

Chris said:
Please explain this Run Rate thing you are calculating - I have no idea what you are on about :confused:
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Easy.
They required 150. Since we are only looking at runs off the bat, take away the extras leaves 134 at a run rate of 112.
Kallis had a RR of 118...higher than required.
The rest of batsmen managed only 62 runs from 66 balls at a RR of 94 ...less than what was required.

Do the same for England game etc...Kallis outperforms team and required RR again.

Hope that's clearer.


Chris said:
...what matters is that Kallis and Duminy were solely responsible for taking up the RR from 8 to 12.
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I don't agree and Kallis' stats support it. Kallis himself was batting at the required RR, but Duminy wasn't ...not until after Kallis left. Duminy was the one that had to throw his bat, given that they were unlikely to be bowled out and the ones replacing him would complement Kallis' correct style.

...but the problem started before that. As I said the Pakistani's already knew the real stats and knew that Smith wasn't performing, Gibbs was hot and cold and De Villiers only performed against Scotland.

So take a better start to innings and Duminy would have been just fine too (RR 112).

btw:
Smith ave 24, RR 108, Gibbs 19 @123, Duminy 28 @103

Kallis 59.5 @ 127

A high RR means nothing without the runs...Kallis scored more than enough at more than the required rate.

Hope that is a bit clearer.

cheers:)



Like for like top four, Kallis outperformed the other three
 
Ozzie i think your missing the point we are making, we do not doubt kallis is good nor do we doubt he scored at more than a run a ball but what we are saying is that from around the 11th-12th over neither kallis nor duminy did anything to stop the run rate getting out of hand, they never tried to go at the bowling, they never tried to put the bowler off his line, they just stood still and took singles when we needed a minimum of 10 an over, the net result of this was by the 15th over we needed 12.

the point we are making is both kallis and duminy failed to understand that anything over 11 an over is considered virtually impossible. We are not saying kallis is crap in fact kallis is a strong powerful man who should have been able to take the spin apart or try to before the run rate imploded, he did not he kept pushing singles along with duminy, why did kallis not say to duminy in the 13th over, ok mate you go have a whack i'll stay in or visa versa? He is also rated as one of the best ever so i ask again why did he not see the trouble we were in before the 15th over?

Why wait for the run rate to hit 12 before going mad? did they not know gul had four overs to come? did they not know we had 7 batsmen waiting to come in and smash the ball? Why did they wait so long with so many wickets in hand?

I do not need to play for the national team or anything to know that every over you only get 4 runs when you need 10 the run rate is going to sky rocket, people who play for the national team like kallis and duminy did not even realize this obviously so i have to question who actually knows more, the guy sitting watching the run rate on tv go out every over or the people who play for the national team? Even the commentators said they need to hit some runs every over from the 12th but still they took singles and got their 5 runs while 7 other batsmen waited to get in there and control the run rate.
 
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We were beaten by a better team and / or strategy - whatever - get over it.

In today's semi final I'm rooting for the 3Ms:D Go SL :D.

(And beat the beep* beep* out of the Pakis in the final).
* Censored because this is a family thread:p.
 
Killa ...all I am saying that it wasn't Kallis...his wicket wasn't the one to be sacrificed to lift the run rate and besides he was batting fast enough. The other bloke wasn't and that put pressure on...you would have to go back to a ball by ball analysis to prove it.

However,arguably if Duminy only got another 4 runs in that time , then Kallis didn't need to risk another six and they would have made it. Or if the six went over , you would be praising Kallis now...or would you have found some other issue ?;)

...but we'll move on from that.

The value of Kallis will probably reaslised when he retires.
 
OzzieCapie said:
Killa ...all I am saying that it wasn't Kallis...his wicket wasn't the one to be sacrificed to lift the run rate and besides he was batting fast enough. The other bloke wasn't and that put pressure on...you would have to go back to a ball by ball analysis to prove it.

However,arguably if Duminy only got another 4 runs in that time , then Kallis didn't need to risk another six and they would have made it. Or if the six went over , you would be praising Kallis now...or would you have found some other issue ?;)

...but we'll move on from that.

The value of Kallis will probably reaslised when he retires.
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+1.

Killa has his golden boy and is rather a gibbs /<insert player> - fan / hater.

So tell us again how Gibbs did yesterday? Sure you were telling me the other day how much better he is than Kallis :p

Look the rest of the batsmen were K@K, Kallis was doing what he should have done. THE OTHER BATSMEN FAILED US!

He can hold his head high.
 
Ah thanks for explaining that :)

Well the ICC Champions Trophy is next - the Proteas can only look forward to that provided they don't choke :p.

Going for West Indies victory today - Gayle in top-form is something of a spectacle.
 
jak3 said:
Thats always been the nature of afridi. Most of the time he isnt very good, and you'll get him out easy. But every now and then he transforms into an unstoppable force which wins you games.

Gibbs is similar. Often he will get caught with the easiest of catches, and then on another day he will get you to 430 plus. But in saying that, gibbs is much more consistent.
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Nope, Afridi gets himself out playing stupid shots...

killadoob said:
Gayle and WI for me today :D
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Nope Sri Lanka!!!:D
Jayasuriya and Malinga!:D
Gayle wont make more than 10.
 
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