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- Thread starter TheRoDent
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mrbob</i>
My query is this : How large an effect on our bandwidth do you think those proxies being open has? I'm not an expert on these things, infact I know very little but my thinking is that it can't be bringing us all down from the potential 16Kb/s to the current 1.5 Kb/s I've been experiencing for the past month? Or can it? I dunno...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Let's put it this way - lets say 1 adsl customer uses the proxy, but instead of just switching to it after capping they run with it the whole month ... Assuming a reasonably heavy downloader .... 30KB/s average over 30 days = 75 odd GB
R
My query is this : How large an effect on our bandwidth do you think those proxies being open has? I'm not an expert on these things, infact I know very little but my thinking is that it can't be bringing us all down from the potential 16Kb/s to the current 1.5 Kb/s I've been experiencing for the past month? Or can it? I dunno...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Let's put it this way - lets say 1 adsl customer uses the proxy, but instead of just switching to it after capping they run with it the whole month ... Assuming a reasonably heavy downloader .... 30KB/s average over 30 days = 75 odd GB
R
Sentech's PR releases have been trumpeting how their technical team is working around the clock to fix the problem. Considering that Rodent posted this story over and hour and half ago, and port 3128 is <b>still</b> open, their technical team's clock must stop after 4:30.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by regardtv</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mrbob</i>
My query is this : How large an effect on our bandwidth do you think those proxies being open has? I'm not an expert on these things, infact I know very little but my thinking is that it can't be bringing us all down from the potential 16Kb/s to the current 1.5 Kb/s I've been experiencing for the past month? Or can it? I dunno...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Let's put it this way - lets say 1 adsl customer uses the proxy, but instead of just switching to it after capping they run with it the whole month ... Assuming a reasonably heavy downloader .... 30KB/s average over 30 days = 75 odd GB
R
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Add to that the fact that the proxy address is availble all over the internet.
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mrbob</i>
My query is this : How large an effect on our bandwidth do you think those proxies being open has? I'm not an expert on these things, infact I know very little but my thinking is that it can't be bringing us all down from the potential 16Kb/s to the current 1.5 Kb/s I've been experiencing for the past month? Or can it? I dunno...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Let's put it this way - lets say 1 adsl customer uses the proxy, but instead of just switching to it after capping they run with it the whole month ... Assuming a reasonably heavy downloader .... 30KB/s average over 30 days = 75 odd GB
R
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Add to that the fact that the proxy address is availble all over the internet.
guest2013-1
guest
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2003
- Messages
- 19,800
Read the new article on ItWeb where Winston **** said that they'll basically clamp down on excessive usage.... It will take 19 days of FULL DOWNLOAD SPEED of 55kb/s on a 512k package to download that much.
I'm in the process of downloading about 15 gig now... running at full speed last time I checked, so lets see if old noone can hit 90 in a month's time
I suggest everyone that is willing and able (and their speeds dont suck) do the same thing... I for one will be cancelling this service as soon as they call me to stop, because blaming your customer for your own stupidity (and still being ignorant about it) is ****ing awful
Help save the bandwidth. Decent download speeds for TheRodent! Stop downloading now!!!
I'm in the process of downloading about 15 gig now... running at full speed last time I checked, so lets see if old noone can hit 90 in a month's time
I suggest everyone that is willing and able (and their speeds dont suck) do the same thing... I for one will be cancelling this service as soon as they call me to stop, because blaming your customer for your own stupidity (and still being ignorant about it) is ****ing awful
Help save the bandwidth. Decent download speeds for TheRodent! Stop downloading now!!!
I'm with noone - with my 256k package i should do 2.4GB a day - at the moment its about 1.2 - 1.5GB a day. I am sure its the same for other MW users receiving relatively good service.
Sentech just pissed the wrong guy off.. which turned out te be a good thing.
Sentech just pissed the wrong guy off.. which turned out te be a good thing.
MyDraadloos
Expert Member
- Joined
- May 6, 2004
- Messages
- 3,257
Everybody blow your cereal box whistles ...... RoDent's the man !
RoDent - were you born on the year of the RAT ?
Ban Rattax 
]
256, 36 Bedfordview
Signal : 11 S-N-L : 4
BER : 28% Patch - Batenna
RoDent - were you born on the year of the RAT ?
Ban Rattax ![
]256, 36 Bedfordview
Signal : 11 S-N-L : 4
BER : 28% Patch - Batenna
Inevitable
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 1, 2004
- Messages
- 427
Rodent can this be fixed be sentech soon?or will it take forever?
Glory Glory Man United!
Glory Glory Man United!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by aborg</i>
<br />Can someone explain to me in toddler language plz
[]
Does this mean people have been abusing the open proxies on sucktech and thereby reducng available bandwidth that sucktech is blaming on poor MW customers being abusive.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Let me try to give a simple explanation of the problem for the less tech literate.
The situation in South Africa is that local bandwidth is plentiful and relatively cheap. However, international bandwidth is insanely expensive due to Telkom's de facto monopoly on international data communications. Retail international bandwidth costs about R5000 pm for a 64 kilobits per second slot on SAFE-SAT3.
If you're an ISP you want to buy as little international bandwidth as possible because it will make up the bulk of your operating expenses.
Let’s say you are an ISP with 1000 users. Each night your users get home from work and fire up Google to find something or catch up on the latest news. The Google front page is pretty small size-wise ... it’s about 11 kilobytes. Now of that 11 kilobytes, 9 kilobytes is the Google logo image: "logo.gif". That means that about 90% of what you need to download to see Google's home page is this one image. You can search for lots of things and get lots of results on Google that change the text you are seeing on the page but the Google logo stays constant and unchanging.
Now there are two ways to give our 1000 users the Google logo image. Allow all 1000 users to download it individually which would require about 1000 X 9 kilobytes or 8 megabytes of international bandwidth. OR, we can download it once, as the ISP, and then "cache" (save) it locally on our system and give it to the other 999 users using cheap local bandwidth. If we do this we have saved nearly 8 megabytes of international bandwidth! A HUGE saving!
The type of software that does this local caching is known as a proxy. Squid is a well known example of such software. But there is a problem. If we cache stuff locally as the ISP our users might not be getting the latest split-second-up-to-date-version of international sites. Devious, tech literate, users of our ISP want to be sure that what they are seeing is the very latest up-to-date version of international sites when pressing "refresh" in their browser. So they choose not to use our proxy and set their browsers to connect directly to our international pipeline. This is a problem because our 1000-1 = 999X bandwidth saving is now only a 1000-2 = 998X bandwidth saving. And so on …
So to FORCE all our users to first try to get content they request from our proxy server rather than use our expensive international pipeline we use a "transparent" proxy. The "transparency" means that our users are forced to go through the proxy whether they want to or not. It's not optional, that’s why it’s "transparent" to the user.
For example some time back MWEB only had a 40 megabyte international pipeline that served about 100000 users. Caching content with a proxy makes using a pipeline as small as 40 megabytes a feasible option rather than needing a 100000 X 56 kilobits (analogue modem) = 680 megabyte pipeline. MWEB only needed an international pipeline 5% the size of what they otherwise may have needed. (I’m ignoring the contention issue for now … lets keep this simple!)
Now there is another concept to understand: Open vs. closed proxy's.
We don’t want any Joe Soap to be able to connect to our proxy and request and receive content. Our proxy is the "gatekeeper" of our expensive international pipeline. Once a content request is accepted, and the content is not found locally, it has to be downloaded via our expensive international pipeline. Naturally we should only allow our OWN users (i.e. the 1000 legitimate customers of our ISP) to be able to use our proxy. This is a closed proxy.
On the other hand if we configure our proxy as an open proxy, which is normally the default setting, any Tom, Dick or Harry can connect to it and download content using our international pipeline without paying a cent. If this happens who suffers? Our 1000 legitimate users suffer lower speeds and we as the ISP bitch and moan about our users "using too much bandwidth". We as the ISP would typically say things like "6% of our users are using 50% of our bandwidth". Sound familiar???
Do you know of any group of people in ZA who have lots of local bandwidth but have no international bandwidth??? Come on think! ... YES .... Capped ADSL users. I hope the penny is dropping by now??
Naturally open proxy's can be used and abused by anyone who knows about them not just local capped ADSL users. As it happens open proxy’s are regarded as being so valuable by hackers and other nefarious types that these people use automated software packages to search for such open proxy’s to exploit. Sentech’s open proxy’s were found by these persons and the "free ride" was advertised for all and sundry to use at will.
So the bottom line for all you MyWireless users: People in ZA and all over the world have been stealing the bandwidth you have been paying so dearly for. They have been able to do this because of Sentech's monumental bungling incompetence. And to really make this a comic tragedy, Sentech have been blaming the slow speeds you currently experience on YOU the MyWireless users for using too much bandwidth! Meanwhile, the real problem has been that Sentech have left their international pipeline open to use and abuse by all and sundry!
-Professional information anarchist-
www.sentechhatesfreespeech.org.za
I support:
www.hellkom.co.za
<br />Can someone explain to me in toddler language plz
[
]Does this mean people have been abusing the open proxies on sucktech and thereby reducng available bandwidth that sucktech is blaming on poor MW customers being abusive.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Let me try to give a simple explanation of the problem for the less tech literate.
The situation in South Africa is that local bandwidth is plentiful and relatively cheap. However, international bandwidth is insanely expensive due to Telkom's de facto monopoly on international data communications. Retail international bandwidth costs about R5000 pm for a 64 kilobits per second slot on SAFE-SAT3.
If you're an ISP you want to buy as little international bandwidth as possible because it will make up the bulk of your operating expenses.
Let’s say you are an ISP with 1000 users. Each night your users get home from work and fire up Google to find something or catch up on the latest news. The Google front page is pretty small size-wise ... it’s about 11 kilobytes. Now of that 11 kilobytes, 9 kilobytes is the Google logo image: "logo.gif". That means that about 90% of what you need to download to see Google's home page is this one image. You can search for lots of things and get lots of results on Google that change the text you are seeing on the page but the Google logo stays constant and unchanging.
Now there are two ways to give our 1000 users the Google logo image. Allow all 1000 users to download it individually which would require about 1000 X 9 kilobytes or 8 megabytes of international bandwidth. OR, we can download it once, as the ISP, and then "cache" (save) it locally on our system and give it to the other 999 users using cheap local bandwidth. If we do this we have saved nearly 8 megabytes of international bandwidth! A HUGE saving!
The type of software that does this local caching is known as a proxy. Squid is a well known example of such software. But there is a problem. If we cache stuff locally as the ISP our users might not be getting the latest split-second-up-to-date-version of international sites. Devious, tech literate, users of our ISP want to be sure that what they are seeing is the very latest up-to-date version of international sites when pressing "refresh" in their browser. So they choose not to use our proxy and set their browsers to connect directly to our international pipeline. This is a problem because our 1000-1 = 999X bandwidth saving is now only a 1000-2 = 998X bandwidth saving. And so on …
So to FORCE all our users to first try to get content they request from our proxy server rather than use our expensive international pipeline we use a "transparent" proxy. The "transparency" means that our users are forced to go through the proxy whether they want to or not. It's not optional, that’s why it’s "transparent" to the user.
For example some time back MWEB only had a 40 megabyte international pipeline that served about 100000 users. Caching content with a proxy makes using a pipeline as small as 40 megabytes a feasible option rather than needing a 100000 X 56 kilobits (analogue modem) = 680 megabyte pipeline. MWEB only needed an international pipeline 5% the size of what they otherwise may have needed. (I’m ignoring the contention issue for now … lets keep this simple!)
Now there is another concept to understand: Open vs. closed proxy's.
We don’t want any Joe Soap to be able to connect to our proxy and request and receive content. Our proxy is the "gatekeeper" of our expensive international pipeline. Once a content request is accepted, and the content is not found locally, it has to be downloaded via our expensive international pipeline. Naturally we should only allow our OWN users (i.e. the 1000 legitimate customers of our ISP) to be able to use our proxy. This is a closed proxy.
On the other hand if we configure our proxy as an open proxy, which is normally the default setting, any Tom, Dick or Harry can connect to it and download content using our international pipeline without paying a cent. If this happens who suffers? Our 1000 legitimate users suffer lower speeds and we as the ISP bitch and moan about our users "using too much bandwidth". We as the ISP would typically say things like "6% of our users are using 50% of our bandwidth". Sound familiar???
Do you know of any group of people in ZA who have lots of local bandwidth but have no international bandwidth??? Come on think! ... YES .... Capped ADSL users. I hope the penny is dropping by now??
Naturally open proxy's can be used and abused by anyone who knows about them not just local capped ADSL users. As it happens open proxy’s are regarded as being so valuable by hackers and other nefarious types that these people use automated software packages to search for such open proxy’s to exploit. Sentech’s open proxy’s were found by these persons and the "free ride" was advertised for all and sundry to use at will.
So the bottom line for all you MyWireless users: People in ZA and all over the world have been stealing the bandwidth you have been paying so dearly for. They have been able to do this because of Sentech's monumental bungling incompetence. And to really make this a comic tragedy, Sentech have been blaming the slow speeds you currently experience on YOU the MyWireless users for using too much bandwidth! Meanwhile, the real problem has been that Sentech have left their international pipeline open to use and abuse by all and sundry!
-Professional information anarchist-
www.sentechhatesfreespeech.org.za
I support:
www.hellkom.co.za
you guys must remember - it's not just the ADSL users using this - we're talking EVERYONE! EVERYONE who knows how to change their proxy server, and knows how to use google - all over the world!!!
just when you thought they couldn't mess up more... WHAM!
<hr noshade size="1"><font size="1"><i><div align="right"><font color="red">i haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on disk somewhere...</font id="red">
tower12.randparkridge.jhb|13-21% signal|256k package, running at 0.3 - 3k/s</div id="right"></i></font id="size1">
just when you thought they couldn't mess up more... WHAM!
<hr noshade size="1"><font size="1"><i><div align="right"><font color="red">i haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on disk somewhere...</font id="red">
tower12.randparkridge.jhb|13-21% signal|256k package, running at 0.3 - 3k/s
</div id="right"></i></font id="size1"><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mrbob</i>
<br />Please don't think me an ******* for bringing this up or think I'm trying to discredit TheRodent: without him well.. we wouldn't lack proof that Sentech have no clue what they're doing, but now Sentech look like plain idiots for trying to put the blame on their users and making such a huge blatent stupid mistake.
My query is this : How large an effect on our bandwidth do you think those proxies being open has? I'm not an expert on these things, infact I know very little but my thinking is that it can't be bringing us all down from the potential 16Kb/s to the current 1.5 Kb/s I've been experiencing for the past month? Or can it? I dunno...
However I guess , this just makes you wonder. If they have made such an obviously large mistake , how many more critical ****ups do you think they've made with regard to their network. Oh well, I'm looking forward to seeing if this is the problem , I really hope it is and that speeds will pick up once it's fixed and I hope Sentech enjoy the taste of the pile of poop they just stepped in before sticking their foot in their mouths.
-Adios
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Dude capped ADSL users can rape sentechs open proxy with their FULL 512 kbps of local bandwidth!
All for free!
-Professional information anarchist-
www.sentechhatesfreespeech.org.za
I support:
www.hellkom.co.za
<br />Please don't think me an ******* for bringing this up or think I'm trying to discredit TheRodent: without him well.. we wouldn't lack proof that Sentech have no clue what they're doing, but now Sentech look like plain idiots for trying to put the blame on their users and making such a huge blatent stupid mistake.
My query is this : How large an effect on our bandwidth do you think those proxies being open has? I'm not an expert on these things, infact I know very little but my thinking is that it can't be bringing us all down from the potential 16Kb/s to the current 1.5 Kb/s I've been experiencing for the past month? Or can it? I dunno...
However I guess , this just makes you wonder. If they have made such an obviously large mistake , how many more critical ****ups do you think they've made with regard to their network. Oh well, I'm looking forward to seeing if this is the problem , I really hope it is and that speeds will pick up once it's fixed and I hope Sentech enjoy the taste of the pile of poop they just stepped in before sticking their foot in their mouths.
-Adios
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Dude capped ADSL users can rape sentechs open proxy with their FULL 512 kbps of local bandwidth!
All for free!
-Professional information anarchist-
www.sentechhatesfreespeech.org.za
I support:
www.hellkom.co.za
Inevitable
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 1, 2004
- Messages
- 427
but can it be fixed?
Glory Glory Man United!
Glory Glory Man United!