Online piracy

[sin_x]

Ok but now Microsoft is pushing silverlight to become the replacement for flash and now you have clients who insist on silverlight. Now you are stuck because you can't do silverlight 3.0 just 1.0... And they want this and that feature which ain't in 1.0.

As long as M$ controls the market, and they do, there will be a reason to pirate. Just as M$ is there to make money they will continue to to conceive of ways to exclude opens source. This can be said for whatever industry you work in. If there is a dominant commercial product that doesn't play nicely with opensource alternatives people will pirate the commercial product because with that they can do more work and actually connect to that dammed blasted closed source server/app...

If you have customers who insist on using silverlight, and that is what you offer but you cant afford the software, then sorry, but your business plan is fail.
You could also use the open source flex SDK, and offer a better product to your uninformed customers, at a far better price.

 

[oober]

If you have customers who insist on using silverlight, and that is what you offer but you cant afford the software, then sorry, but your business plan is fail.
You could also use the open source flex SDK, and offer a better product to your uninformed customers, at a far better price.

Yes but that's the point. Remember I said what is the net economic benefit. So there is a demand for M$ only tech and your business can satisfy that demand but you have to pirate to do it. Even if there is a better alternative out there the demand for a M$ only product will still exist because M$ owns the market. To now tell this business their business plan is a complete failure won't make sense. Because that "failing" business is paying for the school fees and groceries each month...even if it is just for a small amount of people.

 

[Nerfherder]

Breaking the law hardly ever equates to evil... mainly because very often the law is not "good".

 

[oober]

Breaking the law hardly ever equates to evil... mainly because very often the law is not "good".

Yes that pretty much sums it up. We as humans cannot forsee all the possible social and economic affects a said law will have. Now we get these threads were people will argue about piracy untill they are all blue in the face but are still missing the point.

 

[sin_x]

Yes but that's the point. Remember I said what is the net economic benefit. So there is a demand for M$ only tech and your business can satisfy that demand but you have to pirate to do it. Even if there is a better alternative out there the demand for a M$ only product will still exist because M$ owns the market. To now tell this business their business plan is a complete failure won't make sense. Because that "failing" business is paying for the school fees and groceries each month...even if it is just for a small amount of people.

Ah, well. By pirating M$ software, you are perpetuating the demand for it. Rather use an open-source equivalent, and when M$ realises that they are losing customers, they might actually consider a more flexible pricing option, thereby stunting the vicious circle.

 

[oober]

Ah, well. By pirating M$ software, you are perpetuating the demand for it. Rather use an open-source equivalent, and when M$ realises that they are losing customers, they might actually consider a more flexible pricing option, thereby stunting the vicious circle.

Yes and now you have a chicken and egg problem. But I agree with you. Just like the OpenGL vs DirectX problem... Also one can then say that the pirates are actually helping companies like M$... This issue is like a slippery snake it can then be argued that piracy, in it being beneficial to M$ and the like, is then helping to contribute to a world where big brother rules. Because we all know M$ is evil.

 

[Juice]

Yes and now you have a chicken and egg problem. But I agree with you. Just like the OpenGL vs DirectX problem... Also one can then say that the pirates are actually helping companies like M$... This issue is like a slippery snake it can then be argued that piracy, in it being beneficial to M$ and the like, is then helping to contribute to a world where big brother rules. Because we all know M$ is evil.

Hahahahaha! How delicious, the irony!!

Juice

 

[sin_x]

Yes and now you have a chicken and egg problem. But I agree with you. Just like the OpenGL vs DirectX problem... Also one can then say that the pirates are actually helping companies like M$... This issue is like a slippery snake it can then be argued that piracy, in it being beneficial to M$ and the like, is then helping to contribute to a world where big brother rules. Because we all know M$ is evil.

Agreed.
Depends on what your end-goal is though.
If you want to force price-reduction, then piracy is having the opposite effect.

 

[oober]

Agreed.
Depends on what your end-goal is though.
If you want to force price-reduction, then piracy is having the opposite effect.

And in that then you also have another vicous circle. Prices stay the same or go up and then piracy grows.

Thats why I say we are debating the wrong issues. Most probably because they are the only ones we can debate about. hehe

 

[JustinB]

Are you implying Avatart is ****e? I was hoping to go and watch that.

I personally found it to be the same plot as other movies, just with a whole truckload of impressive CGI. Probably would've been even more impressive if it was in 3d.

My then-gf gave me Final Fantasy on dvd many years ago when it was the best CGI at the time. I was amazed at how you could see the strands of hair and how real it looked... but as for the movie, well... average.... Same for avatar.

But that's my personal opinion, my gf loved it. I doubt either of us would buy the dvd or blu-ray though.

 

[JustinB]

Agreed.
Depends on what your end-goal is though.
If you want to force price-reduction, then piracy is having the opposite effect.

But the reverse isn't true. Not pirating won't bring prices down.

It's like the fuel price - you go to pick 'n pay, all the prices are up, you ask why and its because "fuel went up". Next week, fuel comes down, but PnP don't lower their prices....

People might find any reason to copy something for free, companies will look for any reason to charge us more.

 

[Juice]

I personally found it to be the same plot as other movies, just with a whole truckload of impressive CGI. Probably would've been even more impressive if it was in 3d.

My then-gf gave me Final Fantasy on dvd many years ago when it was the best CGI at the time. I was amazed at how you could see the strands of hair and how real it looked... but as for the movie, well... average.... Same for avatar.

But that's my personal opinion, my gf loved it. I doubt either of us would buy the dvd or blu-ray though.

Dances with Wolves in space featuring racist Braveheart Smurfs, according to some sources

On the other hand, I have only good things to say about the movie. I thoroughly enjoyed it and saw both the 2D and 3D versions. The 3D is well worth the experience, just to take a look at what they did with it. It was very impressive. Go watch it, and decide for yourself, and let us know what you thought

 

[sin_x]

And in that then you also have another vicous circle. Prices stay the same or go up and then piracy grows.

Yes, and that is why it is my opinion that piracy is not a "crusade to break the shackles of digital oppression". It is a way for cheap people to get free ****.

Piracy advocates love claiming that they are giving copyright owners free PR, but what they don't realise is that they are helping content producers keep prices artifically inflated.

Anybody who was really, genuinely out to make a difference would not see piracy as the only weapon in the war against greed.

I'll say it again: If you believe it is too expensive, don't buy it. move along.

 

[oober]

Yes, and that is why it is my opinion that piracy is not a "crusade to break the shackles of digital oppression". It is a way for cheap people to get free ****.

Piracy advocates love claiming that they are giving copyright owners free PR, but what they don't realise is that they are helping content producers keep prices artifically inflated.

Anybody who was really, genuinely out to make a difference would not see piracy as the only weapon in the war against greed.

I'll say it again: If you believe it is too expensive, don't buy it. move along.

I wish we could see how this model would play out...And if it would really be better. But what are the chances that people stop pirating. And thats another problem hehe we don't really know what would happen if people did not pirate. Would it be better or worse? Scary

 

[sin_x]

I wish we could see how this model would play out...And if it would really be better. But what are the chances that people stop pirating.

Chances are zero. Cos then pirates wouldn't have the "too expensive" excuse anymore. Most pirates are only happy when they are the only ones that benefit.

 

[JustinB]

I wish we could see how this model would play out...And if it would really be better. But what are the chances that people stop pirating.

I don't think you really need to look hard. Economic theory says a black market (in this case pirated goods) will be created when the perceived value of the customer is less than the price charged by the supplier.

 

[oober]

I don't think you really need to look hard. Economic theory says a black market (in this case pirated goods) will be created when the perceived value of the customer is less than the price charged by the supplier.

I'm not talking just about the economic effects. I mean what kind of social world/society has to exist where no one pirates? Will it have to be something like the utopean Star-Trek federation where money was completely abolished etc.? It also becomes clear that we really need more than one term for "piracy" since a market cannot exist where people don't sell pirated software and merely copies the stuff.

Also since black markets have existed since the beginning of time. Can't we then say that there is something wrong with our models for making money? Can a market exist without a black market? Is a black market a symptom of an unhealty market? Then the issue shifts from piracy to something else.

 

[Albereth]

I guess that Avatar is a sign that the film industry is trying to adapt. For me all of those other 3D movies have been about the gimic rather than the spectacle. But bring me something awesome to watch and I'm there, not looking for a copy on the street corner.

It also stops cams - which, imho, are wastes of bandwidth.

 

[JustinB]

I'm not talking just about the economic effects. I mean what kind of social world/society has to exist where no one pirates? Will it have to be something like the utopean Star-Trek federation where money was completely abolished etc.? It also becomes clear that we really need more than one term for "piracy" since a market cannot exist where people don't sell pirated software and merely copies the stuff.

my best guesses:

1) its a big brother state where we cannot do anything without being watched.

2) over time, companies adapt to charge value-based pricing and the costs vs. benefits of piracy/copying balance out.

I've been on quite a few seminars and corporate things that indicate true value-based pricing is the way to go - that you can generate higher profit, more customer loyalty, satisfaction etc etc IF its done right.

 

[oober]

my best guesses:

1) its a big brother state where we cannot do anything without being watched.

2) over time, companies adapt to charge value-based pricing and the costs vs. benefits of piracy/copying balance out.

I've been on quite a few seminars and corporate things that indicate true value-based pricing is the way to go - that you can generate higher profit, more customer loyalty, satisfaction etc etc IF its done right.

I sure hope that 2 prevails...but 1 is what instinct would choose.