Online piracy

[Juice]

haha, I see the crusaders are at it still. Do you guys get paid a commission for defending the IP of your respective companies, or are you just doing this out of the goodness of your hearts?

BTW, you do realise that no amount of back slapping and cameraderie will validate your argument any more than making a logically reasoned defense? Just checking.

I'm just doing this for fun. To exercise my acerbic wit. There's no amount of backslapping or cameraderie that will validate anyone's argument on both sides of the 'war'. We're all right in our own minds and you really can't argue against someone's belief-system without divine intervention.

Juice

 

[sin_x]

I'm not cancelling my DSTV, I just wanna know if its ok for me to download the blu-rays of all the movies broadcasted on DSTV.

Do you have a license for the blu-ray movies not broadcast via dstv?

 

[JoSorc]

Option 3 is nicer - take it, use it, and pay what you feel its worth.

Ahh yes. The African way?

 

[LazyLion]

So what are we arguing about? I'm free to download whatever I want then.

I don't care what you download, and I don't really think the authorities in South Africa care much what you download as long as it is not kiddie porn. Nobody in South Africa has ever been prosecuted for or even charged with downloading anything except kiddie porn. The day may come when that will change, but for now it seems that the authorities are turning a blind eye to downloading.

But distributing on the other hand is clearly forbidden by the copyright act. Even I acknowledge that. You can be cited for distributing, especially if it is for illicit profit.

Whether or not you feel bad about downloading is another matter. The one camp here says you should feel morally unjustified (have bad feelings and nightmares) about downloading. And the other camp says there are sufficient various reasons why you should feel justified to download what you want.

 

[sin_x]

Option 3 is nicer - take it, use it, and pay what you feel its worth.

seeing how you pay nothing for it, it must be worth nothing.
Why bother downloading it in the first place? Is bandwidth that cheap on your planet?

 

[Juice]

So in the end we should recognize piracy and what it stands for as the yang to the capatalist's jing...

... or the capitalist's ca-ching?

Juice

 

[porchrat]

I'm not cancelling my DSTV, I just wanna know if its ok for me to download the blu-rays of all the movies broadcasted on DSTV.

Depends on your definition of the word "ok". If by "ok" you mean "legal" then no it is not legal as you do not have the authority (as provided by the intellectual property owner) to make a copy of that movie.

If by "ok" you mean "haven't I already paid for this movie by paying a DSTV subscription?" then the answer is still no it is not "ok". Your DSTV subscription does not include a fee that grants you the right to create a potentially-permanent copy of the intellectual property broadcast through DSTV. Your subscription only allows you to receive the services offered by DSTV for as long as you continue to pay. These services include the temporary storage of broadcasts from DSTV on a PVR decoder that has safeguards in it to attempt to stop you transferring the stored broadcasts off of the decoder to another device (this will have been a condition required by companies providing the content). The service doesn't include the right to record the broadcast on another device.

If by "ok" you mean morally acceptable well that is relative to the individual deciding it. So depending on your views you may be able to justify it morally and others may not.

 

[oober]

Yes, it would be chaos. So you then have 2 choices. You pirate to teach them a lesson, or you take the moral high ground, and refuse to purchase from industry players that overprice, and insist on using outdated distribution methods.

So in a sense one could think of pirates as the people who choose to make a more noticable stand against big corporations? Where the people who choose to do nothing, not to purchase the media, can be seen as a more neutral Switzerland.

You hardly ever see the big media companies complaining that someone hasn't bought their product, they complain about the pirates. So then one could say that piracy can more easily bring the issues to the table, or at least get the big gun's attention. It's difficult to imagine what exactly would happen if there was no piracy.

Would it be enough to stop the chaos that we spoke of when people are more passive? Or would the balance be disturbed somehow?

 

[LazyLion]

Err, black and white?
A few posts back you stated that the law was unclear, and that it all depended on the court's interpretation of "importing for personal use".
Is downloading the same as importing?

Jeez, you really do struggle with this English, don't you?

I said that it is clearly black and white that you are not permitted to distribute. I have said that all along.

What is unclear and appears to be a loophole is that you are allowed to "import" for your own personal use AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT DISTRIBUTE IT.

got it?

 

[Juice]

Yes, it would be chaos. So you then have 2 choices. You pirate to teach them a lesson, or you take the moral high ground, and refuse to purchase from industry players that overprice, and insist on using outdated distribution methods.

You're kidding, right? "Pirate to teach them a lesson"? I'd wager the percentage of altruistic Robin Hood digital socialist pioneers in the pool of piracy is miniscule, if they even exist at all. Hahahaha - the thought actually makes me laugh. I've yet to meet someone who pirates to teach the corporates a lesson. Piracy is all about personal gain.

Juice

 

[LazyLion]

I'm not cancelling my DSTV, I just wanna know if its ok for me to download the blu-rays of all the movies broadcasted on DSTV.

download whatever you want for your own personal use, just don't be selling it or giving it to other people. And don't be selling it. If you like the movie then buy the Blu-ray disc or the DVD when you can find it at a decent price. You should reward the content producer for his efforts in producing the content.

It really has got nothing to do with what you see on DSTV. Your DSTV subscription only allows you to watch what is on DSTV. It does not grant you a license to watch it in other formats or from other sources.

 

[JustinB]

seeing how you pay nothing for it, it must be worth nothing.
Why bother downloading it in the first place? Is bandwidth that cheap on your planet?

Actually some things are worth nothing, I own many CDs that I listen to 3 tracks and the other 12 I never listen to.

You have completely missed the point, its like talking to somebody with their fingers in their ears while they go "NA NA NA NA"

 

[oober]

You're kidding, right? "Pirate to teach them a lesson"? I'd wager the percentage of altruistic Robin Hood digital socialist pioneers in the pool of piracy is miniscule, if they even exist at all. Hahahaha - the thought actually makes me laugh. I've yet to meet someone who pirates to teach the corporates a lesson. Piracy is all about personal gain.

Juice

Yes but could it not be possible that piracy is a sympton of a bigger possible evil? Even though the average Joe doesn't put to much though into it he is still pirating for some reason. Maybe we are not really able to see real reason behind it and are too quick to label it. This whole thread is concerned about classifying piracy. But we are not debating the real why, heck do we even know if we can understand the real why. hehe

 

[sin_x]

You're kidding, right? "Pirate to teach them a lesson"? I'd wager the percentage of altruistic Robin Hood digital socialist pioneers in the pool of piracy is miniscule, if they even exist at all. Hahahaha - the thought actually makes me laugh. I've yet to meet someone who pirates to teach the corporates a lesson. Piracy is all about personal gain.

Juice

Yes it is about personal gain, but how many times have you seen the "greedy corporate money-grubbing recording industry" excuse in this thread alone.

 

[LazyLion]

Actually some things are worth nothing, I own many CDs that I listen to 3 tracks and the other 12 I never listen to.

You have completely missed the point, its like talking to somebody with their fingers in their ears while they go "NA NA NA NA"

 

[JoSorc]

download whatever you want for your own personal use, just don't be selling it or giving it to other people. And don't be selling it. If you like the movie then buy the Blu-ray disc or the DVD when you can find it at a decent price. You should reward the content producer for his efforts in producing the content.

It really has got nothing to do with what you see on DSTV. Your DSTV subscription only allows you to watch what is on DSTV. It does not grant you a license to watch it in other formats or from other sources.

I can relate to and accept this as a compromise. With the slightly adjusted provisio of don't use it too make money for yourself. Don't pirate Photoshop to open your own ad agency or if you do, work hard to purchase or legitimize the software you're using.

 

[sin_x]

I can relate to and accept this as a compromise. With the slightly adjusted provisio of don't use it too make money for yourself. Don't pirate Photoshop to open your own ad agency or if you do, work hard to purchase or legitimize the software you're using.

Or just use gimp.

 

[LazyLion]

I can relate to and accept this as a compromise. With the slightly adjusted provisio of don't use it too make money for yourself. Don't pirate Photoshop to open your own ad agency or if you do, work hard to purchase or legitimize the software you're using.

Fully agree with that. Personal use does not encompass business use or profit making.

it would be the same as a downloader opening a video rental shop. That is asking for trouble.

 

[sin_x]

Actually some things are worth nothing, I own many CDs that I listen to 3 tracks and the other 12 I never listen to.

You have completely missed the point, its like talking to somebody with their fingers in their ears while they go "NA NA NA NA"

So then go buy only those 3 songs that you want to listen to.

 

[JustinB]

download whatever you want for your own personal use, just don't be selling it or giving it to other people. And don't be selling it. If you like the movie then buy the Blu-ray disc or the DVD when you can find it at a decent price. You should reward the content producer for his efforts in producing the content.

It really has got nothing to do with what you see on DSTV. Your DSTV subscription only allows you to watch what is on DSTV. It does not grant you a license to watch it in other formats or from other sources.

Gary

It was merely a scenario that I was using to try unpack why some people find it so morally offensive.

I've bought many movies, series, games and have been bitterly disappointed by trailors that mislead, hype from adverts etc. I understand first hand the feeling of being ripped off. What I don't understand is the very clear distinction of good vs. bad here.

I do not think it is evil for me to "try before I buy" if I honour the moral decision to actually reward the copyright holder should i really enjoy it. Even Verimark etc have satisfaction guarantees that say "... bring it back within 7 days if you're not satisfied". But when it comes to music, movies, games etc, there's like 1 out of 10 that are actually good, and we're expected to eat the rest of the proverbial we get shovelled.