Oscar Pistorius: The Sentence

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PoisonedPawn said:
I have been looking at the appeals procedure for superior courts and failed to find any appeal procedure for the state other than that in section 316B (appeal against the sentence which is probably not applicable) and the reservation of a question of law as described in section 319. Section 319 does not have a time frame or complicated leave to appeal procedures. No 14 day lodging period etc.?? The section seems specific that on request the "court shall state the question reserved" if it deems it fit, and not that the state will obtain a opportunity to institute an appeal on the questions of law. [would seem a one step process] Its been years since I followed the updates to criminal procedure or read Hiemstra / case law regarding appeals with any serious intent. Am I missing something here?

Also a normal appeal by the state will include the state paying for the accused legal representation as described in 316B(3), but 319 is silent on this. Any thoughts on this?
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My understanding is that at some point in the last 15 years a doctrine that a material error of law arising in the verdict itself gives rise through 319 to a right to seek leave. As I understand it the doctrine works as a result of the statutory provisions in 319 which invokes and incorporate mutis mutadis 317(5): so the State can reserve a question of law under 319 and if the judge doesn't let them appeal the decision on a 319 read together with 317(5). The whole issue really took a strange flavour with the Basson saga.
See: http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZACC/2004/13.html

However I am also of the view that the doctrine to hold reason would require such reservation BEFORE sentencing due to doctrines relating to jeopardy and such. I am not aware of whether the State has done anything in this vain, but I suspect because of the noting procedure that it was done in discussion with the defense in chambers.


As far as I know if 319 is used the State is not obliged to pay for legal representation, however it is an uphill battle.

The bigger irony though is that the very canisters on this forum who are demanding that the State must and may appeal in this matter - because in their infallible minds he is guilty - are the loudest whiners about the State proceeding further on poor old Wouter Basson - who in their infallible minds is a victim - without realising the irony.
Of course the simplest solution in a Kafkaesque vain would be for Pistorius to murder Basson and be sentenced to life imprisonment for that offence.

My argument and submission on the issue of prosecutorial appeal of the superior courts should be addressed in the CPA with the same sweep as accountability - the NPA should have to account for its conduct if a conviction was not secured, particularly on issues such as bail - and costs (the status quo on costs in criminal matters is not in the interests of justice at all) and should afford the defense the opportunity to before a Master obtain costs and claims (malicious prosecution, imprisonment without proper cause) in a summary manner and the or the Director to state that the State reserves questions of law and seeks leave to appeal. Of course the other part of my argument is that we need to move away from this summary trial bull****.
 
Paul Hjul said:
The bigger irony though is that the very canisters on this forum who are demanding that the State must and may appeal in this matter - because in their infallible minds he is guilty - are the loudest whiners about the State proceeding further on poor old Wouter Basson - who in their infallible minds is a victim - without realising the irony.
Of course the simplest solution in a Kafkaesque vain would be for Pistorius to murder Basson and be sentenced to life imprisonment for that offence.
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Jesus today, Judas tomorrow; nature thereof.

OrbitalDawn said:
Wanting someone to suffer isn't justice, it's bloodlust and sadism.
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Must be an Isreal thing.
 
marine1 said:
Suffer? No just want justice for something he did. He deserves it. I don't want suffering I want true justice not a slap on his wrist that even his own defense are happy with
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No. You clearly want suffering. You will in fact enjoy that. Bloodlust. Sadism. Savage.
 
marine1 said:
Only an idiot believes an accused fired 4 shots into a closed door and didn't intend to kill someone behind that door.
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Only a bigger idiot find themselves behind such a door in the house of a clearly insane man. I really am so p.....d off that people are so preoccupied with the murderer here and not with trying to prevent further such incidents.

If you are in a relationship with someone that is unstable GTFO. The relationship, and in this case your life, has no future.
 
Rouxenator said:
Only a bigger idiot find themselves behind such a door in the house of a clearly insane man. I really am so p.....d off that people are so preoccupied with the murderer here and not with trying to prevent further such incidents.

If you are in a relationship with someone that is unstable GTFO. The relationship, and in this case your life, has no future.
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RE - Only a bigger idiot....
That's unreasonable in the extreme.

With hindsight, OP is/was insane but nobody deliberately gets involved with such a person and the realization comes slowly to the person involved because, when one is only a little bit in the puzzle, it is impossible to see the whole picture - and I speak with the benefit of hindsight.

The indications are that she realized too late and was trying to GTFO but being inside the toilet was no more protection than being anywhere else in the flat because he intended to kill her anyway.
 
Rouxenator said:
Only a bigger idiot find themselves behind such a door in the house of a clearly insane man. I really am so p.....d off that people are so preoccupied with the murderer here and not with trying to prevent further such incidents.

If you are in a relationship with someone that is unstable GTFO. The relationship, and in this case your life, has no future.
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I agree with you. But remember op is rich and famous and women love that.

Like I said before do you think he would have had such beautiful women if he was not rich and famous but still no legs?
I doubt it. Women go where the cash and flash is
 
marine1 said:
I agree with you. But remember op is rich and famous and women love that.

Like I said before do you think he would have had such beautiful women if he was not rich and famous but still no legs?
I doubt it. Women go where the cash and flash is
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Wow. We agree. Wow.
 
Rouxenator said:
Only a bigger idiot find themselves behind such a door in the house of a clearly insane man. I really am so p.....d off that people are so preoccupied with the murderer here and not with trying to prevent further such incidents.

If you are in a relationship with someone that is unstable GTFO. The relationship, and in this case your life, has no future.
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This will appeal to you.

Jimmy Carr Makes Shocking Oscar Pistorius And Reeva Steenkamp Joke At Q Awards

Jimmy began his speech by joking about how long the toilet queues were, reports The Independent, before stating: “So frustrating. All I’m saying is I can see it from Oscar Pistorius’ point of view.”

Despite the fact the audience remained silent, Jimmy continued and turned his attention to Reeva Steenkamp.

“That’s not the controversial bit,” he added. “Here it comes… I blame her.

“If she hadn’t been in that disabled toilet none of this would have happened.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...istorius-reeva-steenkamp-trial_n_6033946.html
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Paul Hjul said:
My understanding is that at some point in the last 15 years a doctrine that a material error of law arising in the verdict itself gives rise through 319 to a right to seek leave. As I understand it the doctrine works as a result of the statutory provisions in 319 which invokes and incorporate mutis mutadis 317(5): so the State can reserve a question of law under 319 and if the judge doesn't let them appeal the decision on a 319 read together with 317(5). The whole issue really took a strange flavour with the Basson saga.
See: http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZACC/2004/13.html

However I am also of the view that the doctrine to hold reason would require such reservation BEFORE sentencing due to doctrines relating to jeopardy and such. I am not aware of whether the State has done anything in this vain, but I suspect because of the noting procedure that it was done in discussion with the defense in chambers.


As far as I know if 319 is used the State is not obliged to pay for legal representation, however it is an uphill battle.
Click to expand...

Thanks - interesting read.

Paul Hjul said:
The bigger irony though is that the very canisters on this forum who are demanding that the State must and may appeal in this matter - because in their infallible minds he is guilty - are the loudest whiners about the State proceeding further on poor old Wouter Basson - who in their infallible minds is a victim - without realising the irony.
Of course the simplest solution in a Kafkaesque vain would be for Pistorius to murder Basson and be sentenced to life imprisonment for that offence.
Click to expand...
Public opinion is fickle and unfortunately people are often like sheep. In total agreement with the statement re irony. Sometimes when I read this forum and see the ridiculous leaps of logic made by small minded, bigoted and vindictive persons, I'm reminded of the Green Day lyrics from and old song called "American Idiot." On a personal side note I consider people who take joy or pleasure in the suffering of others lesser human beings.
 
PoisonedPawn said:
Thanks - interesting read.


Public opinion is fickle and unfortunately people are often like sheep. In total agreement with the statement re irony. Sometimes when I read this forum and see the ridiculous leaps of logic made by small minded, bigoted and vindictive persons, I'm reminded of the Green Day lyrics from and old song called "American Idiot." On a personal side note I consider people who take joy or pleasure in the suffering of others lesser human beings.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Wits law professor James Grant on Friday wrote on social networking site Twitter that Nel had asked for his advice about an appeal.

"I can confirm advocate Nel has consulted me for advice and assistance if he appeals. I have advised that he should appeal and agreed to assist."
 
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