Outa to appeal e-toll judgment

A bright shiny noddy badge to the first person who can show government spending vs government income per province.
 
Valerion said:
Deal. All taxes collected from Gauteng should only be used to improve infrastructure and services in Gauteng. You can use your own tax money to upgrade your roads and provide service delivery in the WC. Sounds fair to me.
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And remember most people in Gauteng are from other provincies.
 
Initially I thought the vaalies should foot the bill but after reviewing the situation quite a bit. The problem with the idea of provinces having to pay for their own is it instils seperatism. An adjustment to fuel levy would probably cover the costs faster.
 
Fudzy said:
Initially I thought the vaalies should foot the bill but after reviewing the situation quite a bit. The problem with the idea of provinces having to pay for their own is it instils seperatism. An adjustment to fuel levy would probably cover the costs faster.
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Correct. My sarcasm earlier on was missed. The poorer provinces (e.g. Free State) cannot pay for themselves, they need the other provinces to provide for them. And we need infrastructure there, to facilitate trade, both internally and internationally. We can't have good roads in Gauteng and the Western Cape, and nothing all the way to the north, because then we cannot trade with our northern neighbours.

The roads in Gauteng being tolled are N-marked routes. The N1 is the same road running through CT, BFN, JHB, PTA, right up to Beitbridge. This is a road built and maintained by the national government, for national trade and transportation purposes. It's not a small inter-town R-route, or a intracity highway, like the R714 or the M1 here in Gauteng. Therefore, since it is of national interest to keep going, the country as a whole should pay for the WHOLE STRETCH of it. You can't have it revert to a 2-lane unmarked gravel road in the Free State simply because the Free State cannot afford to maintain it. That would destroy road freight and commuter traffic between Gauteng and the Western Cape.

Imagine for a moment if the N3 between JHB and Durban was a 2-lane gravel road for 200km, because it happen to g through the Free State. Enjoy your trip down to there. Or the trip from Cape Town to Durban through the Eastern Cape.

Now, I do agree with the fuel levy idea, beyond simply tolling it.
 
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Fudzy said:
Initially I thought the vaalies should foot the bill but after reviewing the situation quite a bit. The problem with the idea of provinces having to pay for their own is it instils seperatism. An adjustment to fuel levy would probably cover the costs faster.
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The fuel levy is here just for this reason.. the addition to the feul levy is just sponsoring the corrupt local GP government.

It's not a winning solution.
 
Valerion said:
Correct. My sarcasm earlier on was missed. The poorer provinces (e.g. Free State) cannot pay for themselves, they need the other provinces to provide for them. And we need infrastructure there, to facilitate trade, both internally and internationally. We can't have good roads in Gauteng and the Western Cape, and nothing all the way to the north, because then we cannot trade with our northern neighbours.

The roads in Gauteng being tolled are N-marked routes. The N1 is the same road running through CT, BFN, JHB, PTA, right up to Beitbridge. This is a road built and maintained by the national government, for national trade and transportation purposes. It's not a small inter-town R-route, or a intracity highway, like the R714 or the M1 here in Gauteng. Therefore, since it is of national interest to keep going, the country as a whole should pay for the WHOLE STRETCH of it. You can't have it revert to a 2-lane unmarked gravel road in the Free State simply because the Free State cannot afford to maintain it. That would destroy road freight and commuter traffic between Gauteng and the Western Cape.

Imagine for a moment if the N3 between JHB and Durban was a 2-lane gravel road for 200km, because it happen to g through the Free State. Enjoy your trip down to there. Or the trip from Cape Town to Durban through the Eastern Cape.

Now, I do agree with the fuel levy idea, beyond simply tolling it.
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The whole N1 is tolled, this applies to n3 and n4.

from PTA to Limpopo we pay around R150 on toll fees.
 
Fudzy said:
A bright shiny noddy badge to the first person who can show government spending vs government income per province.
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I have the allocated national revenue per province (proposal june 2012):

GP : 17.5%
WP: 9.3%

If someone can find how much they produce we can see a net gain/loss.

(interesting that KZN is at 22%, why would it require so much of the budget?)
 
2012 said:
I have the allocated national revenue per province (proposal june 2012):

GP : 17.5%
WP: 9.3%

If someone can find how much they produce we can see a net gain/loss.

(interesting that KZN is at 22%, why would it require so much of the budget?)
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Probably all the stupid monarchies.
 
Fudzy said:
A bright shiny noddy badge to the first person who can show government spending vs government income per province.
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WIKI:

Western Cape:

State budget expenditures R37.05 billion (2011/12)
Tax revenue R37.51 billion (2011/12)

Western cape actually makes more money than it spends it seems.
 
2012 said:
WIKI:

Western Cape:

State budget expenditures R37.05 billion (2011/12)
Tax revenue R37.51 billion (2011/12)

Western cape actually makes more money than it spends it seems.
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Nice work!

*Noddy Badge*
 
I am so tired of reading an E-Tolling thread where @JStrike degrades the thread by quickly jumping on his high horse and claims “he does not what to pay for JHB roads”.

@JStrike, you're degrading the possibly of meaningful conversation taking place between people who want to try stop this system. AND no one asked you to pay for JHB roads... you can put your 2cents back in your wallet! And yes we all know WP gives more to the state coffers than it receives... guess what so does Gauteng. (PS. life IS unfair... it is one of the first lessons the rest of us learned in life! Did you miss that lesson? )

FYI, this is about putting a stop to an inefficient (and easily corrupt able) system which is being spread to ALL provinces (http://businesstech.co.za/news/general/26011/e-tags-to-spread-across-south-africa/). Not only pushing up the cost of travel and commerce with un-necessary overheads and inflated costs, but also putting hundreds of toll-booth operators out of work at the same time.

And btw do you really think the WP will really be able to stand in the way of national government if they are determine to push tolling into the WP. After all they DO have the ability to push through practical any legalisation they want... it's really simple when you have parliament majority vote. Together with the fact that the N1 and N2 national roads do not belong to the WP government, they belong to SANRAL. And if SANRAL in 2014 decides to ‘upgrade’ them by adding one lane and resurfacing and start charging you, how do YOU expect to stop them once they have won the right to do it in Gauteng and set precedence?
 
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kidcolt said:
I am so tired of reading an E-Tolling thread where @JStrike degrades the thread by quickly jumping on his high horse and claims “he does not what to pay for JHB roads”.

@JStrike, you're degrading the possibly of meaningful conversation taking place between people who want to try stop this system. AND no one asked you to pay for JHB roads... you can put your 2cents back in your wallet! And yes we all know WP gives more to the state coffers than it receives... guess what so does Gauteng. (PS. life IS unfair... it is one of the first lessons the rest of us learned in life! Did you miss that lesson? )

FYI, this is about putting a stop to an inefficient (and easily corrupt able) system which is being spread to ALL provinces (http://businesstech.co.za/news/general/26011/e-tags-to-spread-across-south-africa/). Not only pushing up the cost of travel and commerce with un-necessary overheads and inflated costs, but also putting hundreds of toll-booth operators out of work at the same time.

And btw do you really think the WP will really be able to stand in the way of national government if they are determine to push tolling into the WP. After all they DO have the ability to push through practical any legalisation they want... it's really simple when you have parliament majority vote. Together with the fact that the N1 and N2 national roads do not belong to the WP government, they belong to SANRAL. And if SANRAL in 2014 decides to ‘upgrade’ them by adding one lane and resurfacing and start charging you, how do YOU expect to stop them once they have won the right to do it in Gauteng and set precedence?
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Since we are a Unitary state with large aspects of Federalism, yes, the WC government can certainly prevent e-tolling in the WC.

And I will support your call to prevent e-tolling, when you start pushing for solutions that don't result in us paying for your roads. Because the most likely scenario if e-tolling is stopped, is that we end up paying as well for your roads.

Just an FYI, e-tolling is quite successful in Europe
 
marine1 said:
Lets see what you have to say when tolls come to your province ;)
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The WC Government has already said no to tolling major roads, only luxury roads such as Chapmans Peak will be tolled
 
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