Outa to appeal e-toll judgment

[Heisenborg]

I find it funny that you think Gauteng will be the only affected province if and when they ram this through. That is really $#@!$#@!$ hilarious. Are you that naive?

 

[Vrotappel]

If e-tolling is a success in Gauteng it will go to other provinces including the WC. National roads are the responsibility of national government.

 

[kidcolt]

Since we are a Unitary state with large aspects of Federalism, yes, the WC government can certainly prevent e-tolling in the WC.

And I will support your call to prevent e-tolling, when you start pushing for solutions that don't result in us paying for your roads. Because the most likely scenario if e-tolling is stopped, is that we end up paying as well for your roads.

Just an FYI, e-tolling is quite successful in Europe

I'll be honest with you , but the WP government is as unlikely to be able to stop SANRAL from upgrading roads that nation government has transferred ownership to, where the combine people of Gauteng / OUTA / COSATU have failed... From spend whatever amount they deem appropriate, and then claiming they have the right to charge the users of 'their' road the 'necessary' amount to recoup their inflated costs. Especially once a precedent has been set.

You are comparing apple and oranges trying to compare SA and Europe. FYI E-tolling in Europe is used as a profit center, of which 'some' (and not all!) of the profits are used to maintain an admittedly first class public transport system. Lets not kid ourselves E-tolling in SA will also be used as a profit center, but just like the fuel levy collections are not ring fenced for road maintenance the e-tolling profits are un-likely to be used to implement a currently LACKING public transport system. No, instead history has show that the SANRAL has no accountability (i.e. NDA contracts with suppliers which the public does not have access to), and those profits will disappear in the settlement of inflated costs... read ‘inflated costs’ as implying corruptly awarded, overpriced tenders.

FYI, when in Germany I do not miss my car at all. In fact I enjoy leaving the stress of transport to someone else while I enjoy safe travel. But this is not Germany and I do have not desire to be 'possibly' stabbed on a metro rail train. Simply because I do not have other alternate means of transport between my primary two destinations where I am not FORCED to support E-tolling. I suspect a lot of WP road users between CPT CBD and Bellville will feel just as upset if the N2/N1/M5/etc is tolled in the future.

 

[Heisenborg]

I think JStrike fell of his chair or something

 

[JStrike]

If e-tolling is a success in Gauteng it will go to other provinces including the WC. National roads are the responsibility of national government.

The South African National Roads Agency Limited Act requires written consent from the Premier of the affected province

 

[Heisenborg]

The South African National Roads Agency Limited Act requires written consent from the Premier of the affected province

Yeah and Sanral was supposed to have full public hearings. They didnt have them, then they had them and had 100% opposition. They still going ahead. This poor dead horse

 

[Cool E]

The South African National Roads Agency Limited Act requires written consent from the Premier of the affected province

Think like a man dude.

What if ANC wins WC province in 2014? What will you do?

 

[vinodh]

The South African National Roads Agency Limited Act requires written consent from the Premier of the affected province

That's like saying that its illegal to use taxpayers money to build a R200 Million mansion for yourself. Because you say it doesn't mean it won't happen.

 

[Paul_S]

JStrike: I can guarantee that if the e-tolling works in Gauteng it will be forced through one way or the other in Cape Town.

The Winelands Toll Road project in the Western Cape was put on ice earlier this year. Political disputes between Sanral and the DA-led Cape Town City Council put paid to the project, which covers 175 kilometres along the N1, N2 and R300. It includes 105km of the N1 section from Old Oak Interchange to Sandhills and 70km of the N2 from near the Swartklip Interchange to Bot River. The council has argued that the environmental impact assessment (EIA) wasn’t executed appropriately.

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-cross-currents/battle-against-etolling-is-far-from-over

So basically the DA managed to stop it because the EIA wasn't done correctly.
Well guess what? Another EIA can be performed (correctly this time) and the DA's argument will fall away.
Further more I'm sure the ANC can force this through even if some legislation needs to be changed.

Ollis says the first time the Bill can be considered is sometime after Parliament opens on February 10. It’ll then head back to the National Council of Provinces (NCOP). Parliament’s portfolio committee on transport has agreed to request the NCOP to hold public hearings in all provinces which have metro cities where e-tolls could be implemented in future.

It's going to be interesting to see what provinces are included in the public hearings. It certainly doesn't look like it's limited to Gauteng.

So yes, sit on your high horse and let the people in Gauteng fight it alone but don't cry when your town is next on the list.

 

[Valerion]

The South African National Roads Agency Limited Act requires written consent from the Premier of the affected province

The ANC have a majority in the National Assembly and in the National Council of Provinces. And the President is an ANC member. Amending the SANRAL act to change this little detail won't be very hard to do. And the ANC would enjoy screwing the DA in any case.

 

[DJ...]

No, I honestly don't believe us in the Western Cape should be paying for your roads

You already do. And we pay for yours. Levies are not a good recovery mechanism though, but my objections to e-tolling are based on the inflated costs of the entire project and the corruption inherent in the system...

 

[JStrike]

Think like a man dude.

What if ANC wins WC province in 2014? What will you do?

They don't even have a remote chance. It is as likely as the DA winning KZN

 

[JStrike]

You already do. And we pay for yours. Levies are not a good recovery mechanism though, but my objections to e-tolling are based on the inflated costs of the entire project and the corruption inherent in the system...

I agree with your objections. But until the people that oppose e-tolling start proposing (firmly and clearly) an alternative that doesn't result in those of us in the WC paying for it, I, and many of us here, will oppose Outa

 

[antowan]

That is actually completely fair. As the WC doesn't get a single cent from Gauteng

BS! Every taxpayer is technically paying for every public road in every province. E-toll is a double levy. We won't get a petrol tax discount here in Gauteng....

 

[Heisenborg]

You are either with Outa or against Outa (and by default with Sanral)

Nice fellow u are

 

[DJ...]

The WC Government said no to tolling major roads

Not exactly. They pulled out of e-tolling when they saw the uproar it created in Gauteng. It hasn't been scrapped, just sent back to the table for the time being...

 

[LazyLion]

Meh, people from Gauteng should pay for their own roads. Their roads and the costs thereof shouldn't be paid by the people from the Western Cape

This has been explained to you numerous times.
Gauteng Road users are actually paying for your roads.
And yet, here you are again, trolling as usual.

 

[LazyLion]

You are either with Outa or against Outa (and by default with Sanral)

Nice fellow u are

The only thing he is doing here is trolling you guys.
As he has done in hundreds of threads before.
You are wasting your time here.

 

[DJ...]

I agree with your objections. But until the people that oppose e-tolling start proposing (firmly and clearly) an alternative that doesn't result in those of us in the WC paying for it, I, and many of us here, will oppose Outa

Personally I agree with the MBUF method. It is the only sustainable recovery mechanism, taking into account the realities of modern life. We're not in the 60s anymore - we don't need 60s solutions. MBUF is ideal, but its implementation needs to be deeply scrutinised, and subjected to analysis in terms of current economic and social conditions. This wasn't done in SA to be honest. Van Niekerk based his MBUF proposal on a similar proposal from the US, in fact he pretty much verbatim plagiarised it and transposed it onto SA conditions. That is not the level of investigation we should be dealing with.

In principle I have no issue with MBUF, but its adoption in e-tolling in Gauteng is atrocious, transparent as a block of wood, and shrouded in far too many questionable dealings to be considered worthy of accepting. On these basis' alone, you should be on Outa's side. Bear in mind that they are not proposing a fuel-levy alone. They have a few proposals on the table that are hybrid models that are viable. Their levy proposal also recovers the money in a less risky time-frame so it also does have merit to a degree, but the precedent should not be set at levies alone. That is not their only proposal. What they are trying to figure out is the most ideal method to legally object to the system, but that argument won't necessarily reflect their core objections entirely...

 

[Paul_S]

The only thing he is doing here is trolling you guys.
As he has done in hundreds of threads before.
You are wasting your time here.

Yip, let the troll be.
Fortunately I think civil disobedience in Gauteng will stop e-tolling from being rolled out nation wide.
However that is not the case then then JStrike will be in for a surprise and my response will be something like "We're paying for e-tolls in Gauteng so suck it up".