Paying so much for games

[ponder]

No Bryn, for the life of me I cannot see your point. You're saying, the developer/publisher should be paid twice or more for the same item?

Me neither. I don't see why games are 'special'. Imagine if you can't pass on newspapers, magazines, books, cd/dvd/bluray etc or buy them second-hand.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Microsoft recently tried this argument and failed dismally. Why does Bryn think that he will win it?

 

[Bryn]

No Bryn, for the life of me I cannot see your point. You're saying, the developer/publisher should be paid twice or more for the same item?

I would even go as far as to say that secondhand buyers are worse than pirates. Pirates are scum, but they have a low propensity to buy new games - a significant margin aren't potential customers for publishers and would sooner go without the product were it unavailable illegally. But a secondhand buyer could have been a new sale if they gave enough of a damn to just buy new instead, as all games are discounted sooner or later to a price point that matches the utility received by owning it.

How on Earth does two sales constitute being paid twice for the same item? If I sold beautiful hand-made tools and you bought one set and shared them with a friend who wanted them just as much as you, you'd be screwing me over. Not preventing me from being paid twice for the same product.

 

[Bryn]

Me neither. I don't see why games are 'special'. Imagine if you can't pass on newspapers, magazines, books, cd/dvd/bluray etc or buy them second-hand.

As I mentioned though, software does not have an alternative source of revenue. I think it's unethical to consume entertainment without remunerating the content creator whatsoever.

Microsoft recently tried this argument and failed dismally. Why does Bryn think that he will win it?

I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to Microsoft. Secondhand standalone Windows sales have never been a thing.

 

[Vegeta]

The publishers aren't responsible for the insane game prices in the UK, Europe, Australia, Brazil and here. They certainly don't see more money as a result of those prices. Blame laws, regulations and greedy importers for that.
If you don't want to pay exorbitant prices for your games, just switch to PC.

Console games are more expensive because Sony & Microsoft's portion is build in, you want in on our console that will be $$$ thank you. PC games however, it's not. Nothing wrong with it, its just the business model.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

As I mentioned though, software does not have an alternative source of revenue. I think it's unethical to consume entertainment without remunerating the content creator whatsoever.

I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to Microsoft. Secondhand standalone Windows sales have never been a thing.

Nothing has an alternate source of income. If you buy a TV, and sell it later, should the manufacturer be entitled to additional income?

Re MS, read up on their X1 u-turn prior to its launch...

 

[RazedInBlack]

How on Earth does two sales constitute being paid twice for the same item? If I sold beautiful hand-made tools and you bought one set and shared them with a friend who wanted them just as much as you, you'd be screwing me over. Not preventing me from being paid twice for the same product.

But you were already paid for the item. What you suggesting is just pure greed! If I bought your beautiful hand-made tools I can do what I want with it. If I feel I don't need it I'll simply sell it at a lower price or give it away. You've already made your money.

 

[ponder]

If I sold beautiful hand-made tools and you bought one set and shared them with a friend who wanted them just as much as you, you'd be screwing me over. Not preventing me from being paid twice for the same product.

I dunno what to say.

 

[Chevron]

Me neither. I don't see why games are 'special'. Imagine if you can't pass on newspapers, magazines, books, cd/dvd/bluray etc or buy them second-hand.

Games cost way more to make than any of those media you mentioned. They're on the level movies, and unlike movies there's no cinema->Blu Ray->Paid VOD->syndicated TV life cycle to make money. Games have in general 1 month to make back their dev costs, after that people have forgotten about it and moved on to the next thing. So with no extended life cycle second hand buyers hurt games a lot more than movies.

So can definitely see where he is coming from.

 

[Lupus]

As I mentioned though, software does not have an alternative source of revenue. I think it's unethical to consume entertainment without remunerating the content creator whatsoever.



I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to Microsoft. Secondhand standalone Windows sales have never been a thing.

Microsoft isn't only about Windows

 

[Vegeta]

Bryn some second hand buyers would not consider a new purchase of a particular item at all. Sale lost in any case. Most second hand buyers buy some games new, sell their old and buy more new and second hand.

Fact is Second hand buyers and sellers generate sales... Pirates do not.
Some people only buy new games, on the condition that they can recoup some of the expense by selling it again, without a second hand market that New-buyer would not buy at all... Sale lost.

 

[Zyraz]

http://www.xbox.com/en-ZA/entertainment/xbox-one/live-apps/ea-access

[video=youtube;rdyjAlCixUQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdyjAlCixUQ[/video]
Play EA’s best Xbox One games and top franchises, with more titles being added over time.
Play upcoming games before the release date, keep your progress if you decide to purchase the game.
EA Access members can save 10% on all EA digital purchases on Xbox One.

EA Access
R50 per month (Im currently playing Battlefield 4 and Battlefield Hardline , and there is some other premium titles as well available and its costing me only R50 pm and could cost less @ R25 if i went for 12 month membership)
R299 for 12 months

 

[DA-LION-619]

Games cost way more to make than any of those media you mentioned. They're on the level movies, and unlike movies there's no cinema->Blu Ray->Paid VOD->syndicated TV life cycle to make money. Games have in general 1 month to make back their dev costs, after that people have forgotten about it and moved on to the next thing. So with no extended life cycle second hand buyers hurt games a lot more than movies.

So can definitely see where he is coming from.

DLC?

 

[Chevron]

Nothing has an alternate source of income. If you buy a TV, and sell it later, should the manufacturer be entitled to additional income?

Re MS, read up on their X1 u-turn prior to its launch...

I will mention here that when you resell physical goods there is deterioration over time. The physical product becomes worth less, with a digital good the first user gets the same experience as the 50th. There's no degradation.

 

[cypher912]

YEah -- considering it was just over R100 for a 30day sub 2/3 years ago and is sitting on about R200 now and the R600 expansion costs

 

[Chevron]

DLC?

You say it like it's a good thing. Day one DLC that was cut out of the game to try remain profitable.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

I will mention here that when you resell physical goods there is deterioration over time. The physical product becomes worth less, with a digital good the first user gets the same experience as the 50th. There's no degradation.

Discs degrade with time too. Digital downloads are not sellable/transferable in any event so has nothing to do with the second-hand debate...

 

[Vegeta]

So with no extended life cycle second hand buyers hurt games a lot more than movies.

Tell that to good games like GTA5, Skyrim, Witcher3, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Tomb Raider, Zelda, Mario
These games have extended life cycles... incredible game, incredible life cycle. Crap game short life cycle.
Same with movies, crap movie short life cycle, incredible movie, incredible life cycle

 

[RazedInBlack]

Games cost way more to make than any of those media you mentioned. They're on the level movies, and unlike movies there's no cinema->Blu Ray->Paid VOD->syndicated TV life cycle to make money. Games have in general 1 month to make back their dev costs, after that people have forgotten about it and moved on to the next thing. So with no extended life cycle second hand buyers hurt games a lot more than movies.

So can definitely see where he is coming from.

Really? MGS V On its release date grossed US$179 million. Thats in ONE day. Dev cost made!

 

[Bryn]

Nothing has an alternate source of income. If you buy a TV, and sell it later, should the manufacturer be entitled to additional income?

Re MS, read up on their X1 u-turn prior to its launch...

I just showed you how those digital entertainment industries have a bunch of alternative sources of income, so that's simply incorrect to claim. An item of software is not the same as a major capital purchase.

The reason for the XB1 fiasco had less to do with the fact that the games would be permanently tied to each Xbox Live account and more to do with how little value for money that represented. On PC there are a lot of places to buy games, and Steam is famous for their sales and has built up a lot of trust with PC gamers. Not to mention the games are much cheaper anyway, so it's not a problem being tied to an account. On console it would have been a disaster - MS sucks at sales and has no competition on the XB platform. Paying R700-900 for games tied to your console is a load of bollocks.

But you were already paid for the item. What you suggesting is just pure greed! If I bought your beautiful hand-made tools I can do what I want with it. If I feel I don't need it I'll simply sell it at a lower price or give it away. You've already made your money.

This is obviously an opinionated matter. It really boils down to how you feel about remunerating content creators. You clearly don't give a s**t. I care about it a lot though.

Games cost way more to make than any of those media you mentioned. They're on the level movies, and unlike movies there's no cinema->Blu Ray->Paid VOD->syndicated TV life cycle to make money. Games have in general 1 month to make back their dev costs, after that people have forgotten about it and moved on to the next thing. So with no extended life cycle second hand buyers hurt games a lot more than movies.

So can definitely see where he is coming from.

Thanks.

Microsoft isn't only about Windows

But they're mostly about Windows, and Windows is software whereas Xbox is a platform.