Ping to EU increased

Sudo Panic said:
Don't think of it like that, I mean yeah the things we do for better internet is questionable but its become essential in our lives no? To him it looks unnecessary because he doesn't play games but I for one can notice a 10ms difference whether it be videogames or the terminal I'm using.
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Who said I was talking about OP?
 
While ping to EU has been alright (still slightly higher than I would like it to be) I am seeing around 280ms to MEA servers (15.184.0.0/15.184.99.99) when it used to be around 140-150ms

ADSL + Afrihost in Durban.

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Geoff.D said:
You are all so damn sensitive and full of PC BS that you can't see a joke when it stares you in the face.
The point is we live at the ends of long international routes with generally fixed minimum latencies that are hopefully stable.
Changing from one ISP to another is just an exercise in futility.
BUT, it does expose how unbelievably stupid the bandwidth management process is in some ISPs.
All that matters, in the end, is the jitter values which is the parameter you should be looking at.
With human reaction times measured in hundreds of ms, claims you can tell the difference in a 10 ms increase in latency is highly unlikely.

Average human reaction times are:
Visual - 250 ms;
Audio - 170 ms; and,
Touch - 150 ms.
Much more likely is that your computer system does not handle latency variability very well and hence IT is the reason why you have a perception that you can tell the difference in a 10 ms increase in latency.
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Highly unlikely doesn't mean impossible, guess we all have our own opinion, its like putting your foot flat in a car except it takes ! seconds longer to achieve the acceleration or handle in a particular way than it normally would, if you do something enough you'll know the difference trust me.
 
cavedog said:
The reroute is on AWS's side.
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It was nice having the 140ms route while it lasted I guess. It's the same with Google or Cloudflare, all these routes change randomly and it goes from YES NEW LOWEST, to ahh... crap 205ms.
 
So the matter is in SA, to choose an ISP that will or does optimise routing for gaming.
(Are there any ISPs in SA that specifically offer packages optimised for gaming?)

And how many locally located online gaming servers are there? And if there are any, where are they located?

Currently, it would appear that ISPs, in general, do not optimise their network routings for anything except their own benefit.

Having said that, If you live in KZN it makes sense to pick an ISP that is able to guarantee international routing via the east coast cables and if in CT on the west coast cables. Internally in the country, It is a toss-up!
 
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Geoff.D said:
So the matter is in SA, to choose an ISP that will or does optimise routing for gaming.
(Are there any IPSs in SA that specifically offer packages optimised for gaming?)

And how many locally located online gaming servers are there? And if there are any, where are they located?

Currently, it would appear that ISPs, in general, do not optimise their network routings for anything except their own benefit.
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It could be possible, but lets say gaming peak hours are from 6pm - 11pm and the optimal route is seacom, or any of the other very specific routes. The price to rent any international bandwidth on those routes gets pretty crazy. For Durban as an example, you should see how much Seacom charges for bandwidth.

Gaming location. Most "Large" games. Overwatch, Apex, League of Legends, etc are in Europe (MEA is new).

Local game servers like Dota (still has EU servers where most people play) and CSGO are mostly hosted in JHB, with quite a few more popping up in Cape Town now. Durban... well Durban gaming servers died way back with SAIX rented servers.
 
Based on my original reply:

Average human reaction times are:
Visual - 250 ms;
Audio - 170 ms; and,
Touch - 150 ms.
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<150 ms RTT is then the target to aim at. Pretty tuff on players in SA as that is borderline possible provided ISPs optimise their routings.
 
Geoff.D said:
Based on my original reply:



<150 ms RTT is then the target to aim at. Pretty tuff on players in SA as that is borderline possible provided ISPs optimise their routings.
Click to expand...

Am I missing something but since games are visual target should be <250ms?
 
Geoff.D said:
<150 ms RTT is then the target to aim at. Pretty tuff on players in SA as that is borderline possible provided ISPs optimise their routings.
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I mean the average human reaction time is one thing, a lot of gamers can push for a 150ms reaction time (visual and touch combined). Plus the 10ms your PC probably adds its more around 130-140ms reaction time.

The issue we face is the average ping to EU can be around 170-190, so if you add that to our reaction times then you can see why South Africans are basically fighting with double the reaction time.

This all ignores a lot of netcode though, which has to do with what you see, vs what the server sees, what your opponent sees. Its a little complex but there are great videos on it. A good example is Overwatch. While you still feel the lag, it doesn't fully limit you. As if you shoot somebody on your screen first, there is a good chance that the server will register that you hit them. Even if it was 190ms behind, but you see this goes both ways. I could talk for hours on this subject >.>

But yeah, some ISP's are pretty optimized and some as optimized as they can be. The only limiting factor now is literally distance. We would need to cut through some tough long stretches of land to drop our pings even more to EU.
 
s0lar said:
Am I missing something but since games are visual target should be <250ms?
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Well, I suppose it is some sort of combined target. But then if that were so, why is RTT a problem for online gamers at all?

The answer is it is not about the actual RTT value but about the differences in RTT between one or more players of the same online game that is the real issue.

So one solution to the problem of RTT differences between players would be if the game software could dynamically "balance" the RTT between the players thus creating a "level playing field" between them and the problem goes away!

How is that for a SJW solution in this crazy world we live in. Don't thank me - thank Isaac Asimov who came up with this idea in one of his robot short stories many years ago. I forget which one, but seem to remember it was to do with remote-controlled robots used for asteroid mining.
 
ghostRgg said:
It was nice having the 140ms route while it lasted I guess. It's the same with Google or Cloudflare, all these routes change randomly and it goes from YES NEW LOWEST, to ahh... crap 205ms.
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It's back again btw, it wasn't available for less than an hour.
 
Soul Assassin said:
I was worried for a second there, I really like playing on Bahrain.
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I just wish the queue times were faster (guess that's what we get for a smaller region closer to us) and that they weren't so toxic of a community haha. Otherwise, 140ms vs 200 is a giant leap in feel.
 
Geoff.D said:
So the matter is in SA, to choose an ISP that will or does optimise routing for gaming.
(Are there any ISPs in SA that specifically offer packages optimised for gaming?)

And how many locally located online gaming servers are there? And if there are any, where are they located?

Currently, it would appear that ISPs, in general, do not optimise their network routings for anything except their own benefit.

Having said that, If you live in KZN it makes sense to pick an ISP that is able to guarantee international routing via the east coast cables and if in CT on the west coast cables. Internally in the country, It is a toss-up!
Click to expand...

Cool Ideas is regularly making tweaks to their network based on feedback from customers in their thread. As a regular consumer ISP they do a damn good job and I've sent them a few customers as a result of their approach.
 
ghostRgg said:
This all ignores a lot of netcode though, which has to do with what you see, vs what the server sees, what your opponent sees. Its a little complex but there are great videos on it. A good example is Overwatch. While you still feel the lag, it doesn't fully limit you. As if you shoot somebody on your screen first, there is a good chance that the server will register that you hit them. Even if it was 190ms behind, but you see this goes both ways. I could talk for hours on this subject >.>
Click to expand...

This is entirely game dependent. Some games will always register hits while others will make your shot disappear if you died first and others even take a mixed approach. Generally speaking the more competitive the game, the more its netcode punishes you for high ping. This is to avoid weird situations where players are 3 feet behind cover and suddenly die because another player had bad ping.
 
Why did anyone respond to the child who is running around hurling insults when he can't do basic maths? Cries when he is insulted back. Sadbois

Thanks for all the help and replies.

@PBCool my line has been released but cool ideas are only starting to process my order tomorrow. I have the router. Is there a way to fast track this tomorrow?

Thank you so much for your help.
 
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