Police Brutality Thread

[DreamKing]

Dreamking, I wouldnt quite agree with your breakdown, but for the majority it is just a job

your turn

 

[genetic]

your turn

/facepalm

He did - go read his posts.

You really just don't get it Dreamking... do you?

 

[Rosaudio]

your turn

oh god...

/facepalm

 

[McSack]

What ever happened to the Cat's Pajamas case where the cops were caught on camera beating up some people?
There was also that other case about a month ago at a petrol station in Pretoria

I think it just exacerbates the perception of bad cops when nothing appears to be done about those who are caught outright doing something wrong. If nothing appears to be done about the bad apples then the public just become more and more p!ssed with even the tiniest hint of brutality

 

[R/SGT]

What ever happened to the Cat's Pajamas case where the cops were caught on camera beating up some people?
There was also that other case about a month ago at a petrol station in Pretoria

I think it just exacerbates the perception of bad cops when nothing appears to be done about those who are caught outright doing something wrong. If nothing appears to be done about the bad apples then the public just become more and more p!ssed with even the tiniest hint of brutality

I agree, the media needs to do a proper follow through any the cases involving police misconduct. This will put pressure on the Justice Dept and the police to ensure that the bad apples are kicked out the force and into jail (Depending on the case)

Just a quick note for the people who say to the officers but that is just your job.

Their job is law enforcement, but we get called on to be medics, firefighters, lifesavers, trauma councilors, social workers, etc since we tend to be first on the scene for anything unpleasant. So even for those cops for whom it is just a job, they still go beyond what is required of them however reluctantly.

Also there is no laws or regulations that force police officers to risk their lives in any situation, technically if they are at risked of been killed they should just pull back and wait for backup. But if they do that they get lambasted in the media.

A good point is an incident that happened a while ago where a patrol van came across a CIT involving a number of heavily armed suspects (AK47 and R5), the officers retreated and called for back up. Yet the media and public had a full go at them for doing nothing.

 

[McSack]

I agree, the media needs to do a proper follow through any the cases involving police misconduct. This will put pressure on the Justice Dept and the police to ensure that the bad apples are kicked out the force and into jail (Depending on the case)

Our media (and by association all of us who rely on them for our news) seem to have the attention span of your average gnat.

 

[Ronjay]

What ever happened to the Cat's Pajamas case where the cops were caught on camera beating up some people?
There was also that other case about a month ago at a petrol station in Pretoria

I think it just exacerbates the perception of bad cops when nothing appears to be done about those who are caught outright doing something wrong. If nothing appears to be done about the bad apples then the public just become more and more p!ssed with even the tiniest hint of brutality

Exactly. While there are cops out there that are doing their job and don't deserve a bad rep, it is a reality created by inaction from disciplinary bodies in the police.

 

[DreamKing]

Rubber and real bullets fly in Kwadakuza

Rubber and real bullets fly in Kwadakuza
2011-06-08 23:19

KwaDukuza - Two people who died during protests over fare increases in KwaDukuza were killed by live bullets, the police said on Wednesday.

"It has emerged that they were not killed by rubber bullets, as reported, but real bullets," said Director Phindile Radebe.

She said police were investigating allegations that the were killed by security guards hired by taxi associations.

"The Independent Complaints Directorate (ICD) is also investigating," she said.

Police commissioner General Bheki Cele was meeting with taxi associations in KwaDukuza on Wednesday in an attempt to end to the protests over fare increases.

The protests started on Monday when taxi fares went up from R4.50 to R7. Protesters said they could not afford the new fare.

"We want them to increase it by 50 cents. That is what we can afford," said Nomusa Dlamini.

She said the increase was unfair because taxi operators did not have the capacity to transport the community.

Busses better

"They decided to kick out the buses a few years ago and now they [are] unable to transport us. We have to wait far too long before we get taxis in the mornings and afternoons," she said.

The bus fares were also reasonable, she said.

Scores of police officers and a police helicopter, monitored the situation in the area on Wednesday.

The R102 between the Shakaskraal and Gledhow off-ramps remained closed to traffic.

On Wednesday, municipal workers removed burnt tyres and other objects left by the protesters.

Locals were forced to walk to their destinations as no taxis were running.

During the protests, two cars, a truck and a police officer's home were torched. Police rescued the occupants of the truck, but failed to save the furniture and paint it was carrying.

The Wednesday meeting began at 10:00. By 17:00, no solution had been found.

It was attended by the department of transport and safety and community liaison officials.

"There are proposals on the table. We are optimistic that we will soon reach an agreement," said provincial safety and community liaison department spokesperson Kwanele Ncalane.
- SAPA

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Rubber-and-real-bullets-fly-in-Kwadakuza-20110608

another isolated incident.....

 

[RaptorSA]

The guys from Lockenville assaulted by pigs last night. You can follow them on Twitter to see what happened.

 

[genetic]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Rubber-and-real-bullets-fly-in-Kwadakuza-20110608

another isolated incident.....

FFS Dreamking READ THE ARTICLE!!!!

She said police were investigating allegations that they were killed by security guards hired by taxi associations.

Oh, and yeah... it's only the cops who are always at fault.

During the protests, two cars, a truck and a police officer's home were torched. Police rescued the occupants of the truck, but failed to save the furniture and paint it was carrying.

Get that chip off your shoulder.

 

[greg0205]

R7bn cop brutality price tag

R7bn cop brutality price tag

Shootings, beatings, torture, wrongful arrests, harassments and assaults are incurring the police billions of rand in damages claims, with the State forking out hundreds of millions of rand in taxpayers’ money in settlements every year.

This information comes days after three protesters were allegedly shot and killed by police during violent protests in KwaZulu-Natal.

The latest killings bring the number of demonstrators killed, allegedly at the hands of police, in the past two months to seven.

The killings occurred on Tuesday when three KwaDukuza residents, including a teenager, were shot dead during protests over increased taxi fares.

The use of force by police and an apparent lack of human rights training for recruits has been slammed by criminologists, with some calling for a review of police management and a reorientation when it comes to the use of force.

And while claims against police have increased by hundreds of millions of rand, police management remains tight-lipped about what they are doing to curb their often wayward, violent and brutal members.

Despite e-mailing questions to national police commissioner General Bheki Cele’s office two weeks ago inquiring about whether human rights formed part of the recruits’ training, his spokesman, Colonel Vish Naidoo, failed to respond.

Asked about the costs the SAPS had incurred and paid out in damages for shootings, assaults and police actions, Naidoo referred the Pretoria News to the police annual report. A review of the SAPS’ past five annual reports, from the 2005/6 financial year to the 2009/10 financial year, shows that pending damages claims against SAPS assaults, shootings and police actions amounted to R6.7 billion, while police paid out more than R190 million in damages for assaults, shootings and police actions during the same period.

The Pretoria News understands that the amounts paid out in damages each year are not necessarily for the amounts incurred in that specific year and could be for damages claimed in previous years.

The reports reveal that over the past five years, the costs the police incurred for assaults have more than tripled, from R52.7m in the 2005/6 financial year to R186.5m in 2009/10.

For that same period, the costs the SAPS incurred for wayward police action increased by R700m, from R1bn to R1.7bn.

When it came to shootings, the costs the police incurred more than quadrupled from R69.6m in 2005/6 to R235.9m in 2009/10.

In terms of pay-outs over the past five financial years, the police on average paid R2m a year for assaults by its members, while pay-outs for police actions, such as wrongful arrests and harassment, over the same period increased from R19.6m to R51.9m.

When it came to shootings, liability pay-outs decreased over the same period from R7.6m in 2005/6 to R5.3m in 2009/10.

David Bruce, senior researcher at the Centre for the Study of Violence and Reconciliation, said the pay-outs and damages incurred were another reason the government needed to attach greater priority to the question of proper control when it came to the use of force by police.

“There is clearly a need for strengthening police management, especially when it comes to addressing issues on the use of force.

“Effectively, what these claims mean is that more harm is being done by police than good,” he said.

Bruce said there was an urgent need for overall reorientation of police in their approach to the use of force. “When it comes to training we can surmise that it is inconsistent.

“The overall tone set by police leadership on the use of force is having a profound impact, especially when it comes to what happens in training,” he said.

Institute of Security Studies policing expert Johan Burger said training was of serious concern with not enough trainers or facilities for the thousands of new recruits entering the police force.

“The SAPS has simply grown too quickly for its training capabilities.

“While specialised units often receive the necessary specialised training, it is impossible to do this for all station members. Not only does this apply to specialised training, but also to firearm refresher and legal training courses.

“Even with Cele’s admission that they had taken in numbers over quality, and the extension of the recruit training period to address these problems, it does not address the problem of those already employed by the police, who simply should not be in the police in the first place,” he said. – Pretoria News

From an IOL story this Morning... http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/r7bn-cop-brutality-price-tag-1.1080826

 

[DreamKing]

Asked about the costs the SAPS had incurred and paid out in damages for shootings, assaults and police actions, Naidoo referred the Pretoria News to the police annual report. A review of the SAPS’ past five annual reports, from the 2005/6 financial year to the 2009/10 financial year, shows that pending damages claims against SAPS assaults, shootings and police actions amounted to R6.7 billion, while police paid out more than R190 million in damages for assaults, shootings and police actions during the same period.

can't be ......
one or two "isolated" incidents, how possible!!!!

 

[Fudzy]

can't be ......
one or two "isolated" incidents, how possible!!!!

You missed the word pending, the final figure is a lot smaller than the initial estimates.

Are you a criminal? The only people I've met with more dislike for the police are drug dealers.

 

[DreamKing]

You missed the word pending, the final figure is a lot smaller than the initial estimates.

so? if no claim against SAPS, then why it has R6.7bn claim against SAPS? what is your point?
you think that all the amount will go away because all of them are "false claim"?

Are you a criminal? The only people I've met with more dislike for the police are drug dealers.

if I am a criminal, I will love SAPS because they are useless and corrupt, not hate them.

 

[genetic]

so? if no claim against SAPS, then why it has R6.7bn claim against SAPS? what is your point?
you think that all the amount will go away because all of them are "false claim"?




if I am a criminal, I will love SAPS because they are useless and corrupt, not hate them.

Troll alert.

 

[R/SGT]

can't be ......
one or two "isolated" incidents, how possible!!!!

While the amounts shown are staggering, they should have given a breakdown on the average amounts been claimed as this would give us a better idea of the number of cases involved

The Pretoria News understands that the amounts paid out in damages each year are not necessarily for the amounts incurred in that specific year and could be for damages claimed in previous years.

We all know how long court cases can drag on so the amount will also include legal and other fees incurred

The numbers below don’t make sense

The reports reveal that over the past five years, the costs the police incurred for assaults have more than tripled, from R52.7m in the 2005/6 financial year to R186.5m in 2009/10.

In terms of pay-outs over the past five financial years, the police on average paid R2m a year for assaults by its members

For that same period, the costs the SAPS incurred for wayward police action increased by R700m, from R1bn to R1.7bn.

In terms of pay-outs over the past five financial years, the police on average paid R2m a year for assaults by its members, while pay-outs for police actions, such as wrongful arrests and harassment, over the same period increased from R19.6m to R51.9m.

When it came to shootings, the costs the police incurred more than quadrupled from R69.6m in 2005/6 to R235.9m in 2009/10.

When it came to shootings, liability pay-outs decreased over the same period from R7.6m in 2005/6 to R5.3m in 2009/10.

I am also sure that included in the amounts is damage to property resulting from police action where no police negligence was involved, such as MVA's resulting from police responding to Alpha complaints (lights and sirens)

There are plenty of cases involving unlawful police actions and besides better training another solution may be to hold individuals personally liable for damages if proven in a court of law

 

[Rosaudio]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Rubber-and-real-bullets-fly-in-Kwadakuza-20110608

another isolated incident.....