Prostitution: Yes or No

[bk.ru]

How am i forcing my morals on anyone? I'm just saying i object to it because i feel the same criminal element would exist regardless of legalities. I'm allowed to do that. Just as you are allowed to say you have no problem with it. .

Your right to objection is not being question, the morality behind your objection is being questioned.

 

[cerebus]

No I surely wouldn't because I do have a moral feeling about it. But the argument for it's illegalisation would be much weaker if there were no element of exploitation. And it can be argued that prostitution is instrinsically exploitative. How many male prostitutes are there serving women for instance? How many women grow up wanting to be a prostitute? It is debasing by its nature.

 

[Serqet]

Have you ever been to Amsterdam? As far as i know they have alarm systems installed because it is still dangerous for the girls.

 

[bwana]

are they gonna legalize weed too? I mean, I heard Holland is making weed and shrooms illegal again, so maybe we should legalize it and get more tourists here

They never legalised it.

 

[Serqet]

Your right to objection is not being question, the morality behind your objection is being questioned.

On a personal level i feel it is degrading to women. It makes them nothing but an object to be used and abused. I was taught to respect my body and my womenhood so that is why i don't like the idea of it. I'm not judging anyone.

I can quite understand how a woman would get to a point where she had no alternative if she had children and needed to feed them or feed herself. I just feel sad that it has to come to this.

 

[Nanfeishen]

Jumping in a bit late , but definately legalise prostitution.

If New Zealand can do it and it seems quite succesfully as well i i see no reason why it should remain illegal.
If a client wants or needs a service, he or she should be able to go to a professional.
If i want my car serviced or my geyser replaced , i go to a skilled professional for those services, if i want a shag, why shouldnt i be able to employ or pay for the services of a professional ?, someone who will cater to my needs in comfort and safety, rather than some backyard, backseat job.
Its part of the service industry IMO.

When "Sophie", a medical worker from Christchurch, fell behind on hermortgage payments last year, she found that her job was not paying enough. Her only option was a temporary career change: she became a prostitute.

"I needed money fast so I didn't lose my house," she explains.

A soft-spoken 30-something with a shy smile, Sophie does not look like the stereotypical scarlet woman, even in the low-cut dress she wears at work.
She does not feel like one either. "I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I'm a vegetarian," she says, adding that she had qualms about her new job.
But the city centre parlour she joined - basically a pub with a sitting area at the front and bedrooms at the back - was not the drug-fuelled dive she had imagined.
"All the women here are lovely," she says. "We spend a lot of time sitting and talking. I'll stick it out a bit longer."

Sex workers have the same rights as everyone else. In the eyes of New Zealand's law, the oldest profession is just like any other.

criminalising clients would be a disaster for the industry and put the girls at risk.
"This would scare away the quality customers," she says. "We would be left with the dangerous sort. The nasty men won't go away."

NZ PROSTITUTION REFORM ACT
Brothels allowed to operate
Up to four prostitutes can set up collective as equal partners
Advertising sale of sex legalised
Brothels require certificate and registration by court
Sex work subject to normal employment and health and safety standards

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7927461.stm

A New Zealand policewoman has been allowed to keep her job, despite moonlighting as a prostitute.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5198934.stm

Civilised situation in New Zealand.

 

[cerebus]

I've listened to interviews with women who had to go into prostitution because they had no other financial means. They were all very ashamed that they were brought to that point. The argument of necessity to make a living is not an adequate one.

 

[Pitbull]

On a personal level i feel it is degrading to women. It makes them nothing but an object to be used and abused. I was taught to respect my body and my womenhood so that is why i don't like the idea of it. I'm not judging anyone.

I can quite understand how a woman would get to a point where she had no alternative if she had children and needed to feed them or feed herself. I just feel sad that it has to come to this.

+1

I hate the idea of opening Pandora's box here. This only has one outcome I can see and it doesn't favour woman at all. This country is to corrupt to even deal with petty crimes how the hell are they going to enforce and make sure these woman are 100% protected.

It will be awesome and I'll support it if:

. The woman can join and leave as they please
. They have security at hand during every transaction
. There is a cure for Aids

Till that day, I doubt I'll ever support it.

 

[subculture]

Have you ever been to Amsterdam?

Yes.

As far as i know they have alarm systems installed because it is still dangerous for the girls.

I never went to the red light district and utilised any of their services but I can imagine that being in any brothel.

I do not think their is a problem with prostitutes, drugs ect. Has been there since the dawn of mankind. What bothers me is OUR country generally make a blunder out of anything they do.

LOL. Imagine FTSWS (Fast Track Sex Worker Scheme) like the (Rapid Transportation System) and then all the sex workers will go on strike.

Then you will see a busy day on this forum.

 

[thatdamnJoe]

How am i forcing my morals on anyone? I'm just saying i object to it because i feel the same criminal element would exist regardless of legalities. I'm allowed to do that. Just as you are allowed to say you have no problem with it.

As for the other comment i made about business transactions. Someone made a comment about it just being a business transaction. So i compared it to child slavery since that is also a business transaction. What makes the one okay and the other not? Sex for money is fine but children for money isn't? What is the difference is all i want to know? I'm trying to have a discussion and see where your perspective lies. Instead i am just getting attacked for my own moral belief system. I should be open to other people's views yet nobody seems very open to mine.

The act of selling a child harms the child.

The act of selling sex does not harm the seller.(barring STD's etc)

You could argue that the circumstances in the sex trade lend themselves to exploitative situations and that it is generally a dodgy environment. That is a different argument altogether though and can be addressed without criminalising the selling of sex.

So many posters agree that many prostitutes are being forced into the business against their wishes. That certainly is tragic, but I do not hear us trying to ban the making of clothes because sweatshops exist. Do not equate the tragic conditions the sex trade currently operates in with the sex trade itself. People who condone decriminalising prostitution see that the conditions the industry operates in and the product it is selling do not have to go hand-in-hand. Changing the law is the first step in trying to get rid of those horrid conditions and change the status quo. As soon as you criminalise an act or industry that will always have a demand, you can be damn sure that criminals will be in control of that industry. Are we saying we prefer it that way? Or pretending that it will go away?

The argument that we should not decriminalise because we dont have the manpower to police is a hollow one indeed. If it is the right thing to do, then we should create the infrastructure requried to make sure that people can ply whatever trade they choose with dignity.

Having said all of that, I have never nor do I intend to ever use the services of a prostitute. I firmly believe in their right to decide what to do with their bodies however.

 

[porn$tar]

Sex for money is fine but children for money isn't? What is the difference is all i want to know?

There's that black and white again. Adults enter into prostitution under their own volition, for whatever reason. Children don't have much say in the matter, the decision is made for them. That's what makes child trafficking worse than prostitution.

 

[cerebus]

Adults don't necessarily enter into prostitution of their own volition, and its effects on a woman - because they are overwhelmingly women - are rarely if ever positive.

As soon as you criminalise an act or industry that will always have a demand, you can be damn sure that criminals will be in control of that industry. Are we saying we prefer it that way? Or pretending that it will go away?

As I've argued before decriminalisation of prostitution tends to actually increase the criminal element, and dramatically increases the number of working prostitutes. The effect of illegalisation is to curb the scale that the prostitution trade is able to grow to. Decriminalisation causes it to become rampant, creating a class of ostensibly professional workers and enabling a still thriving underclass of invisible street workers. And the trade fuels child prostitution and drug cartels, there are explicit links. Decriminalisation does not change that, it worsens it.

 

[Serqet]

The act of selling a child harms the child.

The act of selling sex does not harm the seller.(barring STD's etc)

You could argue that the circumstances in the sex trade lend themselves to exploitative situations and that it is generally a dodgy environment. That is a different argument altogether though and can be addressed without criminalising the selling of sex.

So many posters agree that many prostitutes are being forced into the business against their wishes. That certainly is tragic, but I do not hear us trying to ban the making of clothes because sweatshops exist. Do not equate the tragic conditions the sex trade currently operates in with the sex trade itself. People who condone decriminalising prostitution see that the conditions the industry operates in and the product it is selling do not have to go hand-in-hand. Changing the law is the first step in trying to get rid of those horrid conditions and change the status quo. As soon as you criminalise an act or industry that will always have a demand, you can be damn sure that criminals will be in control of that industry. Are we saying we prefer it that way? Or pretending that it will go away?

The argument that we should not decriminalise because we dont have the manpower to police is a hollow one indeed. If it is the right thing to do, then we should create the infrastructure requried to make sure that people can ply whatever trade they choose with dignity.

Having said all of that, I have never nor do I intend to ever use the services of a prostitute. I firmly believe in their right to decide what to do with their bodies however.

Okay i do see your point. It is unfair to criminalise sex when it's the criminal element that ultimately leads to the moral decay i mentiioned earlier. We do however need a whole structure in force before we could even consider making it legal.

 

[Serqet]

There's that black and white again. Adults enter into prostitution under their own volition, for whatever reason. Children don't have much say in the matter, the decision is made for them. That's what makes child trafficking worse than prostitution.

So you feel that there would be women who would opt for prosituation as opposed to being a receptionist for example?

I don't think they do it because it's their calling/dream job. They do it because they feel they have no other choice.

 

[thatdamnJoe]

No I surely wouldn't because I do have a moral feeling about it. But the argument for it's illegalisation would be much weaker if there were no element of exploitation. And it can be argued that prostitution is instrinsically exploitative. How many male prostitutes are there serving women for instance? How many women grow up wanting to be a prostitute? It is debasing by its nature.

If your morals dictate that you should not use prostitutes, by all means dont.

I'm not so sure about prostitution being intrinsically exploitative. Merriam -Webster defines Expoit the intransitive verb as

2 : to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage <exploiting migrant farm workers>.

If selling sex is intrinsically exploitative, then what you are saying is there is no fair price for sex ever("Indecent Proposal" anyone?). Morally, one could argue that sex should never be sold, but not all people believe that.

You may believe prostitution is debasing by nature, and many will agree. Why does that give you the right to make that moral judgement for others though? How would you have liked it if <insert repressive religious sect here> were the majority the world over and subjected the rest of us to their view of how the world should be?

Should a woman who decides she wants to sell sex, and the man who wants to buy it be forced to go to jail? Because you think theyre bad people?

 

[Nanfeishen]

As I've argued before decriminalisation of prostitution tends to actually increase the criminal element, and dramatically increases the number of working prostitutes. The effect of illegalisation is to curb the scale that the prostitution trade is able to grow to. Decriminalisation causes it to become rampant, creating a class of ostensibly professional workers and enabling a still thriving underclass of invisible street workers. And the trade fuels child prostitution and drug cartels, there are explicit links. Decriminalisation does not change that, it worsens it.

Decriminalisation cant change what is already in existence with professional workers and street workers.
There are 3 classes of sex worker operating daily and globally, professional high end workers, middle class workers, and the backstreet workers.
Professional and middle class workers are not the issue here, as they generally do what they do with better class clients with less health risks, and more often than not only on a part time basis, plus they also have more chance of making money that they can utilise to improve their lives and eventually exit the market.
The decriminalisation is aimed at the lower class of sex worker.
It will ensure safer operating environments, easier regulationary checks to make sure there is no abuse, reduce trafficking, reduce young teenagers involved, more money to the girls, health care, reduction in pimping by criminal elements, reduction in drug use as the girls who are involved will have other options to deal with their emotional issues, rather than drugs.

What alternative do you suggest to deal with the issue of prostitution.?
Criminalise it further? Harsher punishments for client and worker?
All that does is to drive it further underground.

Prohibition wasnt good for the alcohol industry and pawned an illegal trade plus a huge criminal underworld.
Legalising abortion ensured that women could make informed decisions about abortion, and if they chose to do so have an abortion in a clinic or hospital under safe conditions.
The same should be considered for prostitution.

The only way to change the oldest profession in the world is to change the way people view it.

 

[icyrus]

And it can be argued that prostitution is instrinsically exploitative.

Then make that argument.

How many male prostitutes are there serving women for instance?

Relevance?

Also, have you considered that the mechanics of it might have something to do with it.

How many women grow up wanting to be a prostitute?

How many people grow up wanting to be janitors or garbage men?

It is debasing by its nature.

Why?

On a personal level i feel it is degrading to women. It makes them nothing but an object to be used and abused. I was taught to respect my body and my womenhood so that is why i don't like the idea of it. I'm not judging anyone.

How is it different to being any other kind of salaried worker?

 

[porn$tar]

So you feel that there would be women who would opt for prosituation as opposed to being a receptionist for example?

I don't think they do it because it's their calling/dream job. They do it because they feel they have no other choice.

I did not say that, don't twist my words to suit your argument.

Yes, most do so out of desperation as a last resort and I don't think women aspire to be prostitutes either.

 

[pos(t)er]

I've listened to interviews with women who had to go into prostitution because they had no other financial means. They were all very ashamed that they were brought to that point. The argument of necessity to make a living is not an adequate one.

You're contradicting yourself. If they were so loathe to go into it, then it could have been for no other reason than a financial one that they did end up as prostitutes. It also suggests that they had already tried other alternatives, but that these weren't viable.

 

[Serqet]

It's different because you are using your own body to make money. How does a person hold any value to themselves if they give it away for a certain amount of money?

Wizard that brings me to a question. How were these women's self esteems that you interviewed? I'm curious!