Question regarding Islam

  • Thread starter Thread starter Fudzy
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Fudzy said:
Lets flip the table around. If Christian extremists flew planes into WTC do you think there would be Christanaphobes and sites obscuring religious scriptures? I do. See how pointless bashing a terrorists religion is?
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I agree. Bash the political and cultural structures that allow for the creation of terrorists.

Bash a lack of respect for human rights.
 
@phenom.Up until those verses were revealed converts were forced by the non believers to abandon Islam through persecution,torture and sanctions.Muhammed was never allowed to preach in peace and when their transgressions failed to turn people away from Islam an army was mobilised to crush the Islamic uprising.The battle of Badr was when verses relating to what muslims should do to defend themselves.Those non believers who chose not to kill muslims but rather join them were spared.Those that did not take part in the war were left alone.The tax that was imposed on the jews and christians was imposed as means of giving the muslims back what they had lost during the persecutions.It comes as no surprise that the laws that were introduced ensued people willingly accepted Islam without being forced to do so.
 
@phenom.I suggest you read up on Muhammeds first 10 years of prophethood to understand the severity of the unprovoked persecution,who was invoved,who struck the first blow etc.
When The Prophet became statesman he intoduced a tax collection system to balance the scales like any goverment of today would.
 
@phenom.The muslims were the poorest and in the minority so most of them were excused from paying tax however they still had to pay the compulsory zakaat.Make no mistake the muslims had everything taken from them over a period of 10 years.Most of them were forced to leave their homes to go settle in Ethiopia.Instead of waging war on the non-believers the Prophet devised a system of 'compensation' to settle matters.Think of it as a form affirmative action that was introduced to bring equality and restore to the muslims what they had lost.
 
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Jizya
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is part of the series:

Under Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزْية‎ IPA: [ˈdʒɪzjæh]; Ottoman Turkish: cizye; both derived from Pahlavi and ultimately from Aramaic gaziyat [1]) is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is/was to be levied on able bodied adult males of military age and affording power,[2] (but with specific exemptions,[3][4] though these were discarded at various points in history[5]).
From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, "just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes."[6] In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, to be exempted from military service and the zakat obligatory upon Muslim citizens.[7][8][9]
But in some Islamic regions this controversial tax is being charged from Non-Muslims[10] regardless of their military service contribution in their Islamic states.[11]
The Arabic term jizya appears in verse Qur'an 9:29, but the Qur'an does not specify jizya as a tax per head. According to Paul Heck, the jizya taxation seems to be a developed form of the Sassanian practice of taxation.[12]
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So jiza is a tax to stay in the land the reason for the mentioning specifically that NON-Muslim will pay a tax is that Muslims have a tax called Zakah.

Now any country if you live in that particular country you pay a tax, Islam just differentiate that the type of tax, as Zakat has many rules and regulations which we dont enforce on the NON-Muslim,

Bottom line is if you live in a country then you ganna pay a tax its as simple as that :) Muslim or non-Muslim
 
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phenom said:
read that

Question is: do you think that it is just and appropriate to tax(or not tax) somebody based on their belief/religion(like this tax clearly does)?
And waht is the taxation percentage difference between Zakat and Jizya?

wiki says that Zakat is 2.5%, Jizya is 10%, and some Muslim nations force you to pay both if you're non-muslim. http://www.inter-islam.org/Actions/Part12.html#The punishment for not giving Zakaat (source from the wiki article on Jizya) "In practise however, the Jizya levied on non-Muslims was normally far larger than the Zakat tax on Muslims. Some evidence suggests that the Jizya was typically double the Zakat; for example, the Hedaya,[82] an Islamic legal text, declared it lawful to require twice as much of a Zimmee [dhimmi] as of a Mussulman [Muslim]."[83] Refusing to pay both Zakat and Jizya are crimes subjected to imprisonment and punishment"


and it looks as if the koran speaks of non-muslims having to pay zakat too:: SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "

Wht is meant here 9:05

So non-muslims have to both pay jizya(tax for not being muslim), and zakat(charity to muslims tax that can't be given to non-muslims unless they are turning muslim), charity can't be given to non-muslims either, yet non-muslims have to pay both chirty to muslims tax (which may be up to 50%, vs. the muslim to muslim tax of 2.5%) and a tax discriminating based on belief and opinion, have I understood this properly? This is also what is happening

form same source : "4. Zakaat cannot be given to non-Muslims. " that this charity tax cannot be given to non-muslims as charity ""



And waht's with the "feel themselves subdued"? Imagine the same was written in our own constitution.
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from the site you pointed out

Zakaat is Farz upon a person if: -

1. He is a Muslim;
2. He is an adult;
3. He is a sane person;
4. He is a free person;
5. He owns wealth intended for trading to the value of Nisaab.

All of those condition needs to be met in order to pay zakah. ie you have to be Muslim, adult, sane, free, and own the wealth, but more importantly you have be all of this at the same time
if one of the conditions falle like you become insane then Zakah is no long applies to you
so if you are Muslim and turn to say atheist then Zakah is no long obligatory on you
 
phenom said:
of course, a death sentence is then what's obligatory. Still thouhg, in the 9:05 verse it does seem to rad that zakat is for non-muslims too. there seems to be an unclear consensus as many muslim nations ask non-muslims for obth zakat and jizya.

as to chairty, where zakat and the discriminatiory (non-muslim only) tax goes to , well muslims may not help non-muslims who aren't turning muslim, the tax is not suposed to help non-muslims in a muslim nation neighbor should charity be given to non-muslims:
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=7460
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thats really sad in fact it is sickening I will do some research on the topic later try and figure out wats happening, I will also email my brother-in-law about this tragedy He knows well the people in Muslim hands organisation . People must get food no matter their religious believe I will stand by this statement against who ever denies food to non Muslim I dont care who this is.

Furthermore of the research I have done so far I can only find one person saying this, A Mr Carl Moeller, president and CEO of Open Doors USA. here is a link of the guy

I find it Strange only this person pick up this sickening trend if you can point o more people I would appreciate this, will keep my brother-in-law updated as well :) goto go now

p.s I dont have the time to research more but I will when I get the time
 
@porchrat.Good question and I'm stumped.I think the best thing to do is a googgle on tax laws/muslim country because of socio-economic conditions.I'd like to think that zakaat which is incumbent on every muslim and jizya within the modern context, are completely seperate entities.
 
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BOYAH said:
@porchrat.Good question and I'm stumped.I think the best thing to do is a googgle on tax laws/muslim country because of socio-economic conditions.I'd like to think that zakaat which is incumbent on every muslim and jizya within the modern context, are completely seperate entities.
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Even the idea of a tax that targets Muslims is disgustingly ethnicist. If Jizya is still going on today surely you don't agree with it?
 
@porchrat.Maybe Jizya is just another term for VAT and each country will employ a different system accomodate its citizens.I'm pretty sure that muslim countries that have other faiths living there, are subject to paying tax like everybody else based on income.I will check it out.
 
BOYAH said:
@porchrat.Maybe Jizya is just another term for VAT and each country will employ a different system accomodate its citizens.I'm pretty sure that muslim countries that have other faiths living there, are subject to paying tax like everybody else based on income.I will check it out.
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Jizya was a tax on non-Muslims as far as I can see. That isn't another term for VAT.

Hmmm... It looks as though Jizya is no longer practiced. Thank goodness.

What I'm asking is do you think it is fair for a state to tax people differently based upon their religions?
 
@porchrat.Now no.But then again is it fair for a state to to adjust labour practises according to race?
 
Their reason why non muslims pay a tax call jizha.

They are allow to be excused from taking part in battle in that country.That why they pay Jizha.
 
zeyad 001 said:
Their reason why non muslims pay a tax call jizha.

They are allow to be excused from taking part in battle in that country.That why they pay Jizha.
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I don't agree with the draft either. Making participating in battle mandatory is also wrong. So creating a tax to avoid mandatory battle is just another wrong piled on the original wrong.
 
@phenom.The Treaty of Hudaibiyah illustrates that the Prophet always sought to resolve conflict through diplomacy but met stiff opposition in the form of the Quraish who were only prepared to shed Muslim blood.It was this diplomacy that allowed people to willingly accept Islam and avoid further conflict.
 
@phenom.In any conflict there are casualties fron both sides.Its so easy to scrutinize incidents in isolation and shout Islam=murder,death,kill.One needs to look no further than our own ANC and 'extract' incidents in order to call them terrorists.When you view the overall picture as well as the history it becomes obvious that bloodshed came as a last resort.The jewish tribes broke agreements,treaties and contracts-even among themselves.When diplomacy failed and the apposing forces wanted war, action needed to be taken, to ensure the survival of those people who had accepted to live peacefully.Even for such a long conflict casualties were kept to minimum during the Prophets tenure.
 
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BOYAH said:
@phenom.In any conflict there are casualties fron both sides.Its so easy to scrutinize incidents in isolation and shout Islam=murder,death,kill.One needs to look no further than our own ANC and 'extract' incidents in order to call them terrorists.When you view the overall picture as well as the history it becomes obvious that bloodshed came as a last resort.The jewish tribes broke agreements,treaties and contracts-even among themselves.When diplomacy failed and the apposing forces wanted war, action needed to be taken, to ensure the survival of those people who had accepted to live peacefully.Even for such a long conflict casualties were kept to minimum during the Prophets tenure.
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a nice example is the movie Kingdom of Heaven. i still see religion as the opium of the masses and often an excuse for terrible acts, but what Islam is SUPPOSE to be, is portrayed in that movie
 
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