Question regarding Islam

[undesign]

@siris.2:241 of the Quran says that after a divorce maintenance to the woman should continue to be provided on a reasonable scale which means that the more he has amassed the more he has to pay to her.

And how is that calculated and enforced? You maybe fail to understand why we have common and codified laws - to protect peoples' rights. It's all nice and dandy when people choose to comply with a millenia old verse - but protection of rights is needed in the (many) instances where people choose not to comply. To rely on the offender's sense of justice and reasonability is absurd and naive.

honest answer is I don't know, but can and will find out for you, but with those verses mentioned there is some sort of accrual , again I will find out
any how I got to go have lekker weekend guys

Cool, enjoy the weekend.

Woman married under Islamic law gets maintenance

A woman married in terms of Islamic law has been granted interim maintenance for herself and her daughter pending her divorce, despite her partner claiming that no marriage existed.

The case has brought marriage in terms of Muslim law under close scrutiny by the courts, says a Daily Dispatch report. The woman’s partner claimed he had already divorced her in terms of Muslim law by declaring three times that this was his wish. Her partner claimed that as no marriage existed between them, the rule in terms of which she was bringing the application, which related only to matrimonial matters, had no force. However, notes the report, Judge Elna Revelas in the Port Elizabeth High Court said that the courts had increasingly tended to enforce maintenance and other rights to spouses married in terms of Islamic Law, even though neither the courts nor the legislature legally recognised an Islamic marriage as a marriage in terms of the Marriage Act. She pointed out that the draft Muslim Marriage Bill – aimed at legal recognition of Islamic marriages – was before the Constitutional Court which could result in its ‘expedited promulgation’. This would ‘hopefully create certainty as to the position of Muslim spouses’.

link...

The Qu'ran didn't help her very much...

 

[wise_guy]

When it is comes to divorce there are hundreds of permutations one has to look at before you enforce anything.The law is there to ensure that after all is said and done the woman is not marginalised or completely excluded from any rights
Let's not forget that even in non muslim cases divorce procedures can get pretty ugly and in the history of divorces I don't think there was ever a win win situation for both parties.How were those laws enforced?
In the above case surely the woman is in possession of a valid Islamic Marriage certificate.That's all the proof she needs to take this guy to the cleaners.

 

[undesign]

When it is comes to divorce there are hundreds of permutations one has to look at before you enforce anything.The law is there to ensure that after all is said and done the woman is nor marginalised or completely excluded from any rights
Let's not forget that even in non muslim cases divorce procedures can get pretty ugly and in the history of divorces I don't think there was ever a win win situation for both parties.How were those laws enforced?

Through a legal process - courts, attorneys. Other wise every Tom, Dick and Harry would say "I want to divorce" three times and that would be the end of it...

 

[wise_guy]

@siris.The reason for the three pronged divorce statement is to give couples a chance to reconcile.Sometimes in the heat of the moment a person can say 'I want a divorce' without actually meaning it.
Women are also granted this right and if no consensus is reached after the third divorce,the lawyers are called in for the respective partners.

 

[Frankie]

@siris.The reason for the three pronged divorce statement is to give couples a chance to reconcile.Sometimes in the heat of the moment a person can say 'I want a divorce' without actually meaning it.
Women are also granted this right and if no consensus is reached after the third divorce,the lawyers are called in for the respective partners.

Oh, you mean like this :


http://www.wluml.org/node/3341

Jamaloodeen called back and ended their eight-year marriage over the telephone by issuing a divorce with the words "talaaq, talaaq, talaaq".

Do you know of or have any examples of women exercising this divorce arrangement ? - it seems like it's one of the benefits reserved for men only.

 

[wise_guy]

@frankie.Yes I have heard of women exercising this divorce arrangement mostly because of infidelity.From the above article I can't comment until I've read his side of the story.

 

[Mineer]

link...

The Qu'ran didn't help her very much...

“Accordingly, I find that the applicant is not precluded from obtaining relief in terms of Rule 43(1) by virtue of her Muslim marriage, irrespective of whether the respondent uttered three talaqs or not.”
The husband was ordered to pay maintenance of R2500 per month for the woman and a further amount of R3000 a month for the child. He was also ordered to pay a contribution of R15000 towards her legal costs.
Revelas said once there was a constitutional challenge in the context of relief sought under the Divorce Act, not only the status and effect of the nikkah, but also the status and effect of the talaq, would be scrutinised. -

It would seem this ..... (looking for a nice Expletive to describe the guy) is trying to get out of maintenance, using trickery playing with laws, if he is Muslim and marries according to Muslim Rights then there is a maintenance according to the Quran regardless of living in a non-Muslim country or not.
I dont wanna sound like I am blaming the woman, pls dont mis understand me, but had she gone to a Islamic lawyer, she would have found her rights to maintenance agreed upon in her situation.
My logic is she is married according to Muslim rights not Western law, so she had to seek advise according to muslim law. The guy (again looking for a nice Expletive) tried to advantaged of the fact she went to South African courts thinking that in South Africa Muslim law is was not recognized, not knowing that the acceptance of Islamic law is being considered. :wtf:

You see the fact is he by trying to play "I am not married to that girl" card to get out of paying maintenance, very shaky grounds I think. He believed SA law would not recognize the union so he would not have pay, again looking for a nice Expletive, the dude is clearly an idiot trying to be clever

I am glad that it did not work for him even tho the woman went to SA courts, but had she gone to a Islamic lawyer her outcome should have been the same when using those Quran versus mentioned earlier. I suppose you could argue how effective the Islamic ruling is under SA law, but I suppose we will have to find outcome of the draft Muslim Marriage Bill. This bill is aimed at legal recognition of Islamic marriages with in South Africa.

In conclusion, Yes you are right Quran versus did not help the lady out in this case but its because she went to an institute that does not use the Quran as a basis for rulings,

 

[joy_Energiser]

oppression? lokl did you even read my post about about reading it again pls
Google definitions of contract or get dictionary meanings

whats that movie with George Cloonie about to divorce lawyers who fall in love and wanna get married watch that movie its light hearted way of understanding contract in marriage. maybe not the best example but I am trying to keep it relevant to the non-Muslim on this forum



huh can I make that a BIG HUH what are you talking about she has the right to change the defaulted terms and conditions of the contract, had she done so she would have found her self getting half of the property. She may have not known this rules, but if you sign a contract you are agreeing to be binded to those terms, whether you understand, or know about those rules or not.

Go to any lawyer ask them about binding contract terms and conditions, heck go to Vodacom and sign up a contract with them, you will find they don't explain every rule and regulation to you, unless you ask for an explanation, but once you have signed, meaning you agree,

I mention Vodacom cos that actually hits home for me. since signing up my cell bill rocketed from +/-R150 per month to +/-R600, I wanna get out of this stupid CONTRACT so I Phoned Vodacom during the week guess what I have to pay a penalty, I am like what, where, I don't remember some shiz like that, the Vodacom agent simply said in calm voice "do you want a copy of the terms and conditions", sounded like he was smiling in all honesty "I can even get the original with your signature on it" he continued. Sad situation really

Sorry about earlier, I did get a little heated.

Your point about contracts and Vodacom, thats exactly my point, you see those contracts are designed to benefit the cell phone provider in EVERY WAY, if you don't agree with the terms and conditions, then your shlt out of luck.They will not change those terms and conditions for you...

and that brings me to my point about Muslim women and contracts,now granted I don't know much about Muslim marriage arrangements and contracts, but I have a feeling that the women is usually never in the position to negotiate the contract terms and conditions, just like we will get laughed at if we challange the cell phone providers terms and conditions before entering a contract.

Now be honest,(because honestly I don't know much about it myself) its probably true that muslim women are shunned if they try to change those marriage contract conditions aren't they ?

Are even worse, A high percentage just dont "read the fine print".

Either way, the fact that the contract is by DEFAULT set up in such a way as to benefit the male, just shows the biased situation that currently exists.Only a small percentage of Muslim women actually have the intelligence or courage to get that contract into a benificial situation.

So just because something CAN be done about it, doesn't mean that its fair,because by default, it is not fair.Other wise the DEFAULT position of the contract would benefit both parties equally.I mean, this is simply logical.

 

[joy_Energiser]

Sorry but there is just more I need to add.

Think of western marriages, by DEFAULT from the get-go,marriages are at the position where both parties benefit equally in the event of a divorce.Either party has to specify from the beginning (prenuptial)whether the assets must be held seperate.In comparison to muslim marriage contract, it is the Exact opposite, now tell me which one is "FAIR" ?

Another thing,we are talking about muslims in general around the world, not just in western countries.The wife is confined in appearance and at home isn't she? If you think about rural or traditional muslim areas, are the women even allowed to work ? As far as I know the answer to that is no in most cases isn't it?So how is a muslim women with no assets or the ability to work suppose to negotiate the contract in her favour when she has nothing to bring to the table?In theory what you describe might seem fair, but it's just not going to happen realistically.

C'mon, you guys must honestly ackowledge that Muslim women really are at a disadvantage.

 

[zeyad 001]

No ,A women is not confined to want their wear in the house.They are allowed to wear the clothes they prefer.Only when coming out of the house to say the mall then they have to adere to the Guidelines.

Muslim Women are allowed to go out and work.Theirs nothing in islamic law that prevents them from going out and working.You are talking rubbish about them not being allowed to work.As far as i know only The Taliban does that due to their interpretation of the law.Other muslims around the world do not support this practise.Dubai,Saudi,Pakistan all allow their women to go to work.They are muslim countrys.

You do not understand what rights are giving to a women.Your mother is given more rights that you have to furfill than your father because she has given birth to you.

 

[Mineer]

@joy_Energiser
will firstly appology accpeted... untill you said

Only a small percentage of Muslim women actually have the intelligence or courage to get that contract into a benificial situation.

Thats a really Sad statement there.Your assumption is then woman or at least Muslim woman are just generally dumb/stupid. WoW talk about being Sexiest.
there are few other things I would like point out, maybe later just dont have the time to respond now....
going to a family function
Just something to consider also while I am gone what if the female is well off compared to the male, strangely it does happen, I can put examples of my own sister (true story btw)

 

[porchrat]

No ,A women is not confined to want their wear in the house.They are allowed to wear the clothes they prefer.Only when coming out of the house to say the mall then they have to adere to the Guidelines.

Do they have to wear these getups outside the house? Can they choose not to?

 

[joy_Energiser]

@joy_Energiser
will firstly appology accpeted... untill you said

Thats a really Sad statement there.Your assumption is then woman or at least Muslim woman are just generally dumb/stupid. WoW talk about being Sexiest.
there are few other things I would like point out, maybe later just dont have the time to respond now....
going to a family function
Just something to consider also while I am gone what if the female is well off compared to the male, strangely it does happen, I can put examples of my own sister (true story btw)

I didn't mean to imply that muslim women are stupid, just that it could be very easy for them to forget to change the contract terms and conditions, and that the intelligent ones would usually be the ones that remember to change it, if they were so inclined to.

Also that perhaps uneducated muslim women may not be aware that the contract is allowed to be changed.

That is what I meant.

 

[wise_guy]

@porchrat.As in Judaism as well as Christianity,at the very minimum,it is prescribed that women hide their form as well as cover their hair.However it is a choice as you will notice many muslim women who don't adhere to this.Ironically you'll find it prevalant in Lebanon and Pakistan,countries who you think will stricktly enforce this law.

 

[porchrat]

@porchrat.As in Judaism as well as Christianity,at the very minimum,it is prescribed that women hide their form as well as cover their hair.However it is a choice as you will notice many muslim women who don't adhere to this.Ironically you'll find it prevalant in Lebanon and Pakistan,countries who you think will stricktly enforce this law.

You use words like "law" and "prescribed" along with the word "choice" in the same sentence.

Is it a choice or is it prescribed? Is the wearing of it law or not? What happens to a women that chooses not to dress like that?

I'm also not aware of prescribing the hiding of your form as a women in Christianity nor in Judaism. Do you have scriptures to back that up?

 

[wise_guy]

@porchrat.Sharia law is merely a guideline for how muslims should live and 24:31 of the Quran says that women should draw a veil over their bosoms and hide their adornment(cover their heads and not necessarily their faces).
24:60 also states that she may remove this covering when she reaches a respectable age.Women can choose if they want to adhere to this law or not and the enforcing therof depends on the country she lives in.
There a wiki article(veil)that describes how women of different religions and cultures also wear a veil.

 

[porchrat]

@porchrat.Sharia law is merely a guideline for how muslims should live and 24:31 of the Quran says that women should draw a veil over their bosoms and hide their adornment(cover their heads and not necessarily their faces).
24:60 also states that she may remove this covering when she reaches a respectable age.Women can choose if they want to adhere to this law or not and the enforcing therof depends on the country she lives in.
There a wiki article(veil)that describes how women of different religions and cultures also wear a veil.

I thought Shakira law was actually instated as an actual legal system. Does this not happen? Are you saying that isn't the purpose of Shakira law?

 

[joy_Energiser]

The question should be "Why" they have to wear this veil in certain countries.

 

[wise_guy]

@porchrat.Sharia law encompasses both state and personal law.Personal law is a guideline as to how you should conduct yourself as a muslim.
@joy.It is wrong to force people to wear the full hijab because a)Its not even compulsory and b)the prophet said let there be no compultion in religion which means that no one should be forced to do anything they don't want to do.Therfore wearing of a veil is based on culture not religion.

 

[anees]

Also the fact that when I die, and I go to heaven, I will be promised 70 virgins.

I will also be re-united with my wife from this earthly world.

But, how will the logistics work here ? Can someone enlighten me ?