Racial Classification

[zeridine]

Lets be clear: I understand your reasoning, and I respect your right to form your opinion around that. All I want to point out, is that whenever you fill in a public form, and you happen to have the following options:

x AFRICAN
x COLOURED
x ASIAN
x WHITE

and your skin is white but you mark yourself as "AFRICAN", you are breaking the law because you are providing inaccurate information by not marking yourself "WHITE", and you can expect the present official to correct it for you.

Bear in mind that these options are the OFFICIAL CLASSIFICATION of the Government of South Africa.

please clearly state which law i will be breaking, and what the prosecution will entail.
i fear i might also be an african.
reasoning in basic sentences:
skin pigment = melanin.
more melanin produced in skin when in sun.
/me change race when on beach for long period.
=dilemma.

 

[Capetonian688]

So do you define yourself African because of where you were born or purely on the basis of your skin colour?

I define myself as African because that is what the SA Government tells me I am. And I agree with it.

 

[Capetonian688]

please clearly state which law i will be breaking, and what the prosecution will entail.
i fear i might also be an african.
reasoning in basic sentences:
skin pigment = melanin.
more melanin produced in skin when in sun.
/me change race when on beach for long period.
=dilemma.

When you sign any government form, read the conditions above the dotted line. It will state something like "you hereby confirm to have provided full and accurate information, and any contravention of this is a criminal offence".
Or don't you sign your forms?

Your skin turns black after you have been in the sun for extended times? My man, you should go see a doctor. I have only seen people's skin turn red or very dark brown after being in the sun. Never black. Even so, both you and I know very well how to distinguish melanin pigmentation and natural skin pigmentation from each other (to differentiate a Coloured person from a tanned White person, for instance), since I know that would have been your next remark.

 

[BobbyMac]

I define myself as African because that is what the SA Government tells me I am. And I agree with it.

Oh yes, because governments are always right and never treat their people unfairly or like sheep. You are not an African because your government says so, you are African if you were born on the continent. You would do well not to believe everything your government dishes up.

 

[GavinMannion]

I define myself as African because that is what the SA Government tells me I am. And I agree with it.

... Theres thinking for yourself

What is everyone arguing about though?

If you are born in SA you are South African. That cannot be denied.

If you have black skin you are called African (by this government)
In Europe if you have white skin you are called Caucasian, which is a place in or near Russia...

African or Caucasian has nothing to do with where you are born it is about how you look...

Why the government classifies caucasians as whites and blacks as Africans I have no idea and couldn't care less either way... Seriously does it matter to anyone?

Like Bwana said he is American not North American....

 

[BobbyMac]

When you sign any government form, read the conditions above the dotted line. It will state something like "you hereby confirm to have provided full and accurate information, and any contravention of this is a criminal offence".
Or don't you sign your forms?

**** that. If a government decides to classify me on the basis of what I look like, then I want no part of that country.

Your skin turns black after you have been in the sun for extended times? My man, you should go see a doctor. I have only seen people's skin turn red or very dark brown after being in the sun. Never black. Even so, both you and I know very well how to distinguish melanin pigmentation and natural skin pigmentation from each other (to differentiate a Coloured person from a tanned White person, for instance), since I know that would have been your next remark.

Please inform me how this is done, because I am curious as to why your government classifies me as Coloured, while I am considered Black almost everywhere else in the world.

 

[Vrotappel]

When you sign any government form, read the conditions above the dotted line. It will state something like "you hereby confirm to have provided full and accurate information, and any contravention of this is a criminal offence".
Or don't you sign your forms?

Just looked at my new tax return. Funny that it does not ask my race.

But I have discovered the fundamental truth:

African people (i.t.o. ANC racist policy) = black people

I surmise that these black people for some reason don't want to be referred to as black people.

Why have they got a problem with the color of their skin? I don't know.

Seems it is fine to classify other races on the color of their skin but not black people. Seeing that you know everything can you explain why?

 

[Capetonian688]

Oh yes, because governments are always right and never treat their people unfairly or like sheep. You are not an African because your government says so, you are African if you were born on the continent. You would do well not to believe everything your government dishes up.

You can believe you are African because you were born on the continent. I can believe I am African because the government tells me I am, and I agree with them. It does not matter. But I again point out that if you enter any administrative process with the government, you will be regarded as WHITE if your skin is white, and acting against that in this case will be a criminal offence. That is my point in this whole debate. It is not racist or discrimination, it is merely an administrative formality directed by government and you would be on the wrong side of the law if you indicate otherwise when entering any administrative process with the government. As simple as that.

 

[zeridine]

smartass windbag

When you sign any government form, read the conditions above the dotted line. It will state something like "you hereby confirm to have provided full and accurate information, and any contravention of this is a criminal offence".
Or don't you sign your forms?

Your skin turns black after you have been in the sun for extended times? My man, you should go see a doctor. I have only seen people's skin turn red or very dark brown after being in the sun. Never black. Even so, both you and I know very well how to distinguish melanin pigmentation and natural skin pigmentation from each other (to differentiate a Coloured person from a tanned White person, for instance), since I know that would have been your next remark.

dearest sir
you must be very clever:
to imply i dont sign forms.
i never said i turn black in the sun.
i turn dark daaaaaark brown. daaaaaaaaaaaark.

by your brilliant reasoning, we then can distinguish race not based on skin colour, why are we using skin colour to distinguish one from another. answer because its easy to implement AA/BEE. and if you havent read the news lately, BEE's top demographic group that gets the favour is white women. [insert fake shocked gasp] OMG!?

 

[Capetonian688]

Please inform me how this is done, because I am curious as to why your government classifies me as Coloured, while I am considered Black almost everywhere else in the world.

"**** that. If a government decides to classify me on the basis of what I look like, then I want no part of that country."

- That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, government legislation demands that you provide full and accurate information in administrative matters. Not indicating yourself as "White" when your skin is white, is a criminal offence and you may be liable for prosecution. I am merely reporting the facts here.

"Please inform me how this is done, because I am curious as to why your government classifies me as Coloured, while I am considered Black almost everywhere else in the world."

- You may be one of the rare cases that I was referring to. I do not see what you look like neither am I a government official to judge for myself. I suspect in your case, you may be allowed to choose your race as you associate with (as I explained earlier).

 

[BobbyMac]

You can believe you are African because you were born on the continent. I can believe I am African because the government tells me I am, and I agree with them. It does not matter. But I again point out that if you enter any administrative process with the government, you will be regarded as WHITE if your skin is white, and acting against that in this case will be a criminal offence. That is my point in this whole debate. It is not racist or discrimination, it is merely an administrative formality directed by government and you would be on the wrong side of the law if you indicate otherwise when entering any administrative process with the government. As simple as that.

It's not as simple as that. You agree with your government because it suits your agenda. Administrative or not, the term 'African' is not for the South African government to decide upon - and it is most certainly not in the government's interest to continue with racial classification. Your government is wrong. End of debate.

 

[GavinMannion]

- That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. However, government legislation demands that you provide full and accurate information in administrative matters. Not indicating yourself as "White" when your skin is white, is a criminal offence and you may be liable for prosecution. I am merely reporting the facts here.

I saw you where asked earlier but I never saw the response so I will ask again.

Could you please produce the section of the law that states me refusing to give my racial classification or completing it incorrectly opens me up for prosecution?

I am struggling to find it.

 

[Capetonian688]

dearest sir
you must be very clever:
to imply i dont sign forms.
i never said i turn black in the sun.
i turn dark daaaaaark brown. daaaaaaaaaaaark.

by your brilliant reasoning, we then can distinguish race not based on skin colour, why are we using skin colour to distinguish one from another. answer because its easy to implement AA/BEE. and if you havent read the news lately, BEE's top demographic group that gets the favour is white women. [insert fake shocked gasp] OMG!?

If you sign your forms you would read and understand the conditions of signature. Because you asked me the question, what law you would be breaking, it follows that you do not read the conditions, OR do not sign.

You phrases are very amusing and placed each on its own line. It reads like a formal letter, however, you use no capitol letters. Also at the end, you extend a word using the "a" letter many times, adding even more amusement to the paragraph. I do not know if this was your intention; I merely indicate to you that I find it amusing and it made me smile!

Your statement on AA/BEE and white woman is interesting.
I did not know that.

 

[blonde one]

I define myself as African because that is what the SA Government tells me I am. And I agree with it.

Well the SA Government told me that I am dead but that does not mean that I am......

 

[Capetonian688]

It's not as simple as that. You agree with your government because it suits your agenda. Administrative or not, the term 'African' is not for the South African government to decide upon - and it is most certainly not in the government's interest to continue with racial classification. Your government is wrong. End of debate.

How can you assume I agree with my government because it suits my agenda? How do you know what my agenda is and whether my agenda is relevant at all in this case of me agreeing with my government on this?

Your opinions on the government's bests interests and your statement that the government is "wrong", is your right.

 

[Capetonian688]

Just looked at my new tax return. Funny that it does not ask my race.

But I have discovered the fundamental truth:

African people (i.t.o. ANC racist policy) = black people

I surmise that these black people for some reason don't want to be referred to as black people.

Why have they got a problem with the color of their skin? I don't know.

Seems it is fine to classify other races on the color of their skin but not black people. Seeing that you know everything can you explain why?

I never said that all forms ask for race classification.
Besides, again I point out: if you supply your ID number, your race is beknown to the government / SARS in any case.

I cannot explain why Africans are not labelled "Black". I never stated I know everything. Please do not put words in my mouth. I am sharp enough to pick this up and will action on it each time it happens against me. Please do not do this again. Thank you.

 

[BobbyMac]

How can you assume I agree with my government because it suits my agenda? How do you know what my agenda is and whether my agenda is relevant at all in this case of me agreeing with my government on this?

Your opinions on the government's bests interests and your statement that the government is "wrong", is your right.

It does suit your Agenda. You are Black and African, but you don't want to be called Black because that's exactly how the previous regime pigeonholed you, so now you go with the government attributed "African" instead. You should be content with being a South African - but that's not enough - why is that exactly?

 

[BobbyMac]

I never said that all forms ask for race classification.
Besides, again I point out: if you supply your ID number, your race is beknown to the government / SARS in any case.

Rubbish - the racial identifier was removed from the South African Identity number more than a decade ago.

 

[Capetonian688]

I saw you where asked earlier but I never saw the response so I will ask again.

Could you please produce the section of the law that states me refusing to give my racial classification or completing it incorrectly opens me up for prosecution?

I am struggling to find it.

I am sorry you did not see my response on this issue. I responded many times and I will respond now again for your convenience.

Answer: read the conditions above the dotted line at the end of the form where you have to sign.

 

[Syndyre]

Rubbish - the racial identifier was removed from the South African Identity number more than a decade ago.

Yeah they only distinguish now between SA/Non-SA citizen and I think male/female.