Racial Classification

[Capetonian688]

Rubbish.

By the same standards, Apartheid has its race classifications you should just have shut up and 'dealt with it'.

You are comparing classification terminology with classification terminology and actively discriminating on it. The former is how it is today. The latter is how it was with Apartheid.

Today, SA Government doesn't call you non-African and force you to stick to only certain outcast parts of the beach because of it. They just call you non-African, period.

 

[Nick333]

It doesn't faze me in the least, I know where I come from

Its always grated me. The first time I heard it was in 1998 or 99 when I came into the office one afternoon and the receptionist told me an African lady had phoned for me. I was like, "WTF does that mean?". After much prodding she said she meant a black lady. I said "So WTF does that make me?". She told me European.

It annoyed me then and it annoys me now. Its all very well when to be blase about it but essentially non-black people are being told they are not African. Its as simple as that. Don't get me wrong I know where I'm from and where I belong but I think I think I have the right to call myself an African and no-one has the right to assert that they are more African than me in any context.

 

[Nick333]

Well in US of A there are Afro-Americans so we must surely be Euro-Africans

Lol. You know I think that thats exactly where this stupid racial naming convention comes from. Never mind that the only American population group that is called just plain American should technically be called European-Americans, but the whole thing was started by African-Americans. Black Americans decided that they wanted to be identified as Africans as part of the Black Pride thing. Which is honestly great and fine, but it has nothing to do with me. Perhaps if I felt like a second class citizen in the country of my birth I would also want to identify with something proud and strong, but I don't and I don't.

 

[Nick333]

Well, you may have your reasons against being called a non-African, if you are not black, but the point of the matter is that the SA Government has decided that you are non-African. You may refer to all Government websites, administration, census processes, definitions, etc. to name but a few. So you have to comply with the Government's classification terminology, and there is nothing you can do about that. It has been decided like that and will never ever change.

So deal with it.

Where are you from? China?

This a democracy. I certainly have a right to complain if I feel my rights are being violated and it could certainly be changed if it was found to be a form of discrimination.

 

[kilo39]

It annoyed me then and it annoys me now. Its all very well when to be blase about it but essentially non-black people are being told they are not African. Its as simple as that. Don't get me wrong I know where I'm from and where I belong but I think I think I have the right to call myself an African and no-one has the right to assert that they are more African than me in any context.

African is a label of ethnicity not location. European is just another word for 'white' same as african is just another word for 'black.'

I have no wish to be labelled 'african.' Yes I am from africa but at the end of the day I am South African.

Any racial classification is by implication rascist.

 

[Moederloos]

Well, you may have your reasons against being called a non-African, if you are not black, but the point of the matter is that the SA Government has decided that you are non-African. You may refer to all Government websites, administration, census processes, definitions, etc. to name but a few. So you have to comply with the Government's classification terminology, and there is nothing you can do about that. It has been decided like that and will never ever change.

So deal with it.

Oh - Riiight. The SA government has jurisdiction over all of Africa.
I forgot.

Let me just return to my little world.

 

[Slooth]

Well, you may have your reasons against being called a non-African, if you are not black, but the point of the matter is that the SA Government has decided that you are non-African. You may refer to all Government websites, administration, census processes, definitions, etc. to name but a few. So you have to comply with the Government's classification terminology, and there is nothing you can do about that. It has been decided like that and will never ever change.

So deal with it.

I was born in Africa, therefore I'm an African; deal with it. I might be a white African to you; but the difference between you and I is I don't I don't classify on colour.

 

[Nick333]

You are comparing classification terminology with classification terminology and actively discriminating on it. The former is how it is today. The latter is how it was with Apartheid.

Today, SA Government doesn't call you non-African and force you to stick to only certain outcast parts of the beach because of it. They just call you non-African, period.

Um so that makes it ok? So it would have been ok to refer to blacks using the K or N word as long as they weren't told where they could go?

 

[Capetonian688]

Where are you from? China?

This a democracy. I certainly have a right to complain if I feel my rights are being violated and it could certainly be changed if it was found to be a form of discrimination.

Exactly. SA is a democracy since 1994. That means that the majority of the SA population gets to choose the ruling political party for government. And so, the government addresses the needs of the majority of the population. The government also gets to decide which classification terminology to use and what not. As it stands, you are oblidged to classify yourself as non-African if you are not black, if you are involved in any government-directed procedures and processes like population administration, census, home affairs, etc. You would be committing an offence if you are white and indicate yourself as "African" at a census take, for instance, and you can expect the relevan government official to correct your classification mistake for you, if you can not or do not want to correct it yourself.

Again: deal with it. This is how SA Government decided on the terminology and there is nothing, repeat nothing you can do about it.

 

[Capetonian688]

Um so that makes it ok? So it would have been ok to refer to blacks using the K or N word as long as they weren't told where they could go?

The K and N words, if I think I know what you mean, are derogative. The term "non-African" word is not derogative. If you believe it is, then it is a false perception created by yourself.

 

[Moederloos]

Exactly. SA is a democracy since 1994. That means that the majority of the SA population gets to choose the ruling political party for government. And so, the government addresses the needs of the majority of the population. The government also gets to decide which classification terminology to use and what not. As it stands, you are oblidged to classify yourself as non-African if you are not black, if you are involved in any government-directed procedures and processes like population administration, census, home affairs, etc. You would be committing an offence if you are white and indicate yourself as "African" at a census take, for instance, and you can expect the relevan government official to correct your classification mistake for you, if you can not or do not want to correct it yourself.

Again: deal with it. This is how SA Government decided on the terminology and there is nothing, repeat nothing you can do about it.

At what point does an iterracial child stop being African? When his lips shrink below a certain size?

 

[Capetonian688]

I was born in Africa, therefore I'm an African

Your reasoning did not and will not affect the decision on classification terminology instated by the ruling political party in SA government brought about by free and fair democratic elections more than 13 years ago.

 

[Capetonian688]

At what point does an iterracial child stop being African? When his lips shrink below a certain size?

Is this a racist statement - about the lips?

 

[Xarog]

You are comparing classification terminology with classification terminology and actively discriminating on it. The former is how it is today. The latter is how it was with Apartheid.

Today, SA Government doesn't call you non-African and force you to stick to only certain outcast parts of the beach because of it. They just call you non-African, period.

Oh, right, BEE and AA is just a figment of my imagination. Sorry to have bothered you... I'll leave now.

 

[Nick333]

African is a label of ethnicity not location. European is just another word for 'white' same as african is just another word for 'black.'

I would argue that "ethnicity" refers to distinct cultural groups on a much smaller scale than an entire continent of people. Besides which I would argue that my culture and history is unique to this continent and certainly distinct from anything in Europe.

I have no wish to be labelled 'african.' Yes I am from africa but at the end of the day I am South African.

You are of course entitled to your opinion and you are allowed to call yourself what ever you want.

Any racial classification is by implication rascist.

Arguably it is still necessary in South Africa, but why add insult to injury?

 

[Moederloos]

Is this a racist statement - about the lips?

Read it as you like - the point is to juxtapose what is being done now to what was being done in the past.
How would YOU decide who is black enough to be African?
Measure the lips - get a light meter to measure skin tone? Maybe look at someone's hair?

I leave it up to you to decide - I for one have no idea.

 

[Capetonian688]

Oh, right, BEE and AA is just a figment of my imagination. Sorry to have bothered you... I'll leave now.

BEE and AA are two excellent tools to correct the wrongs of the past. If there were never any Apartheid, it would not have been necessary for corrective measures like BEE and AA. I find it ironic that you complain about BEE and AA, when the atrocities of Apartheid were much worse than even the most extreme stretch of imagination of BEE and AA implementation.

 

[Voldemort]

tell you what, i aint a bee candidate and i feel poretty discriminated against lately

 

[Nick333]

Again: deal with it. This is how SA Government decided on the terminology and there is nothing, repeat nothing you can do about it.

There is plenty I could do if I chose to. If what you say was true African-Americans would still be known as Negroes.

 

[Capetonian688]

Read it as you like - the point is to juxtapose what is being done now to what was being done in the past.
How would YOU decide who is black enough to be African?
Measure the lips - get a light meter to measure skin tone? Maybe look at someone's hair?

I leave it up to you to decide - I for one have no idea.

There are statistically very few cases, compared with the national population as a whole, where mixed race children cause problems when it comes to classification. Certain sectors of the SA population love to refer to such cases as proof that classification based on race does not work, however they know full well that the vast majority of SA population are not mixed and can be easily classified. Skin colour is still the best way to classify people into African and non-African, thus previously advantaged or disadvantaged. There is no need for any special measures or any alternative method of classification on African vs non-African and thus advantaged or disadvantaged for such a small sample of the population that are individual mixed cases.