Racial Classification

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56kMan said:
My surname has been in SA since Jan van Riebeeck came here. If I went to Europe I would be a foreigner. Which European that you know eats boerewors. My first language is Afrikaans. I say things like whozit and ag shame. I have never be outside of Africa. If I am not a African, then what am I?
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What colour is your skin?
 
Capetonian688 said:
Yes it does. BEE and AA has been approved by the High Court, Constitutional Court, Parliament and Government of SA, as allowed methods of correcting the wrongs of Apartheid. You didn't know that? Where have you been the last 13 years?
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Now if the government declared that the sky is in fact not blue but green and got all those branches of itself to agree would that change what colour it really is?

Can you possible think for yourself for a moment?

Still waiting for the step by step guide to racial classification by the way.

Edit: and while we are at it, it would be great if you could my first point from earlier with a little more than nonsense.
 
Capetonian688 said:
You are comparing classification terminology with classification terminology and actively discriminating on it. The former is how it is today. The latter is how it was with Apartheid.

Today, SA Government doesn't call you non-African and force you to stick to only certain outcast parts of the beach because of it. They just call you non-African, period.
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Not that part in red is replaced by BEE, AA and other racist laws. Even 20% discount shares is sold by a reputable company on racist lines thanks to the government policy. Maybe many white boys is not outcast on the beach but they are outcast in the working environment and many other places.
 
Capetonian688 said:
What colour is your skin?
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eish, my skin, hau. I think its brown, because my dad he is white, but my mamma she is black. So you tell me what color is my skin. My brother he is black, because he has a different fadda. His fadda is indian, so he is black, not brown like me. Hau. We both Africans, me and my brudda and my fadda, and my brudda's fadda. And my mudda, we all african's and we all say, hau and eish.
 
Capetonian688 said:
Exactly. SA is a democracy since 1994. That means that the majority of the SA population gets to choose the ruling political party for government. And so, the government addresses the needs of the majority of the population. The government also gets to decide which classification terminology to use and what not. As it stands, you are oblidged to classify yourself as non-African if you are not black, if you are involved in any government-directed procedures and processes like population administration, census, home affairs, etc. You would be committing an offence if you are white and indicate yourself as "African" at a census take, for instance, and you can expect the relevan government official to correct your classification mistake for you, if you can not or do not want to correct it yourself.

Again: deal with it. This is how SA Government decided on the terminology and there is nothing, repeat nothing you can do about it.
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The sooner we get over the terms of "majority" and "skin colour" the brighter the future of country will be. You're focusing on the details and in essence segregation. Government has never openly addressed the concept of African and non-African as you have put it; it merely your "racist" opinion. When I say "racist" I mean your opinion of another colours heritage or sense of belonging. If we are going to have people think otherwise, then there's very little future in this country.
 
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Capetonian688 said:
As it stands, you are oblidged to classify yourself as non-African if you are not black, if you are involved in any government-directed procedures and processes like population administration, census, home affairs, etc. You would be committing an offence if you are white and indicate yourself as "African" at a census take, for instance, and you can expect the relevan government official to correct your classification mistake for you, if you can not or do not want to correct it yourself.
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Where in SA law does it say it is an offence for a white person to call him/her self an African?
 
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icyrus said:
...
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"Now if the government declared that the sky is in fact not blue but green and got all those branches of itself to agree would that change what colour it really is?" - Top-level civil matters are handled by the High Court. Constitutional matters are handled by the constitutional court. In this case, the High Court would probably disagree with the government's assertion that the sky is green, and would instruct the government to name the sky BLUE. In the case of AA and BEE, the courts of law actually approved both tools, so the government is allowed to implement them. Do you understand now?

"Can you possible think for yourself for a moment?" - yes I can. Are you implying that I cannot think for/by myself? On what grounds?

"Still waiting for the step by step guide to racial classification by the way." - very easy:
Step 1: skin colour. If:
black = assign "African"
white = assign "White"
yellow = assign "Asian"
brown = assign "Coloured".
Step 2: if skin colour not clear, ask person (if legal of age) what race he/she associates with. If not legal of age, ask person's parents / legal guardians, what race the child associates with.

The above procedure has been documented, applied and implemented in several SA public sectors, for quite a while. Are you not aware of it?

"and while we are at it, it would be great if you could my first point from earlier with a little more than nonsense." - sure.
"If you weren't a racist, if you didn't support discrimination you would abhor the use of the word African to designate only blacks." - why? I fail to see what is discriminating about assigning an approved word for a certain racial group.
"You would rightly cringe everytime you heard in knowing that it marginalizes a large section of your fellow South Africans." - that is a function of classification. What is so abnormal about it?
"You would know that it gives a feeling of unwelcomeness and resentment to people who want to help shape this country, to make it great." - why? I cannot understand why a person who is classified as "White" would feel more unwelcome as a person classified "African".
 
NoADSLyet said:
Not that part in red is replaced by BEE, AA and other racist laws. Even 20% discount shares is sold by a reputable company on racist lines thanks to the government policy. Maybe many white boys is not outcast on the beach but they are outcast in the working environment and many other places.
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Strange, I hear the opposite every day. I.e. many Africans are STILL outcasts at many employment places in SA. It seems Apartheid is still rife. A few months ago, a brave young African posted a letter on the internet on the Apartheid discrimination at his workplace (some financial firm, I cannot remember). President Mbeki even commented on this young man's attempt to break the silence on Apartheid still rife in today's SA employment.
 
MacNabs said:
eish, my skin, hau. I think its brown, because my dad he is white, but my mamma she is black. So you tell me what color is my skin. My brother he is black, because he has a different fadda. His fadda is indian, so he is black, not brown like me. Hau. We both Africans, me and my brudda and my fadda, and my brudda's fadda. And my mudda, we all african's and we all say, hau and eish.
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In your extremely rare case (if this really is your case), you may choose your classification if you are above the legal age (which I presume you are, since you can post on this forum?).
 
Slooth said:
The sooner we get over the terms of "majority" and "skin colour" the brighter the future of country will be. You're focusing on the details and in essence segregation. Government has never openly addressed the concept of African and non-African as you have put it; it merely your "racist" opinion. When I say "racist" I mean your opinion of another colours heritage or sense of belonging. If we are going to have people think otherwise, then there's very little future in this country.
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I am merely focusing on racial classification which in itself is neither racism nor discrimination.
 
Capetonian688 said:
"Still waiting for the step by step guide to racial classification by the way." - very easy:
Step 1: skin colour. If:
black = assign "African"
white = assign "White"
yellow = assign "Asian"
brown = assign "Coloured".
Step 2: if skin colour not clear, ask person (if legal of age) what race he/she associates with. If not legal of age, ask person's parents / legal guardians, what race the child associates with.
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Utter crap, where do the Indians fit in? Asian? or African? And what about black/white couples etc that have had children? Or black/indian couples who have had children. You cannot classify on race, full stop. Because its causing more racism than ever before. Only a fool cannot see that.
 
bwana said:
Where in SA law does it say it is an offence for a white person to call him/her self an African?
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Next time, read the conditions above the dotted line where you sign the BI form.

It seems I have to repeat myself many times tonight...
 
56kMan said:
of course (who's debating it?)
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I was not debating it in your case. You seem to have asked me what your classification is, and I assisted you in answering. Why then do you respond now with "of course"? Did you already know the answer and the intention of me answering was rhetorical of nature?

It is late, I don't have time to unnecessarily answer questions... I want to go to bed...
 
Capetonian688 said:
In your extremely rare case (if this really is your case), you may choose your classification if you are above the legal age (which I presume you are, since you can post on this forum?).
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extremely rare case? You forgot all about the indians boettie.

So what you are saying, you are able to choose your race? In extreme cases? But that choice is limited and based on the color of my skin? right, ie. if you cannot tell what I am by looking at me? Then i may choose? The result, more bloody racisim and confusion. What gives you the right to say that I can/cannot choose my race? Again, the color of my skin!!!
 
Capetonian688 said:
I was not debating it in your case. You seem to have asked me what your classification is, and I assisted you in answering. Why then do you respond now with "of course"? Did you already know the answer and the intention of me answering was rhetorical of nature?

It is late, I don't have time to unnecessarily answer questions... I want to go to bed...
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dude

I know I'm white LOL

I'm just saying that I live in Africa. Thats all. :o
 
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