Racial Classification

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extremely rare case? You forgot all about the indians boettie.

So what you are saying, you are able to choose your race? In extreme cases? But that choice is limited and based on the color of my skin? right, ie. if you cannot tell what I am by looking at me? Then i may choose? The result, more bloody racisim and confusion. What gives you the right to say that I can/cannot choose my race? Again, the color of my skin!!!

That is how it works, yes. Again, this principle has been implemented for quite a while now, in many public sectors, where relevant. The education sector is a good example.

And no, the Indians are easily classified under "Asian", just like Africans are easily classified under "African", whites under "White", and so forth.

There are very, very few cases where the above classification based on skin color, is not so easy.
 
And no, the Indians are easily classified under "Asian", just like Africans are easily classified under "African", whites under "White", and so forth.
ROFL

You should listen to yourself.:rolleyes:

I think the problem here is ignorance. We have a racist ignorant President who is obsessed with his Negroid identity. No wonder he presides over such nonsense rules and laws ...
 
Exactly, you found it. Good! Now you know what BI forms are.
It seems I have to repeat myself tonight - none that I've read through mention race nor are there any "conditions above the dotted line where you sign the BI form." pertaining to classification.

Do you have a specific form in mind perhaps?
Indeed. But you see, not all can be downloaded. Some has to be obtained directly from an official, so some details (including your race) can be verified. You didn't know this?
I'm sorry - I thought you referred me to the home affairs website . . . wait - you did.
 
"Now if the government declared that the sky is in fact not blue but green and got all those branches of itself to agree would that change what colour it really is?" - Top-level civil matters are handled by the High Court. Constitutional matters are handled by the constitutional court. In this case, the High Court would probably disagree with the government's assertion that the sky is green, and would instruct the government to name the sky BLUE. In the case of AA and BEE, the courts of law actually approved both tools, so the government is allowed to implement them. Do you understand now?

Oh I understand why the government is allowed to get away with it but that is not what I asked or implied. It is still discrimination, dressed up and permitted by the ANC. Their approval of it hasn't changed its nature. It is still discrimination and it is still wrong.

They believe it to be "correcting the wrong of the past" which is sadly misguided. What they really doing is repeating the mistakes of the past.

"Still waiting for the step by step guide to racial classification by the way." - very easy:
Step 1: skin colour. If:
black = assign "African"
white = assign "White"
yellow = assign "Asian"
brown = assign "Coloured".
Step 2: if skin colour not clear, ask person (if legal of age) what race he/she associates with. If not legal of age, ask person's parents / legal guardians, what race the child associates with.

So albino's are considered white then? And what exactly qualifies as white skin? What exactly is the tone that is needed to check this box? What if someone has been in the sun all summer and is tanned?

How completely and utterly daft this is. Are you proud of this procedure?

"and while we are at it, it would be great if you could my first point from earlier with a little more than nonsense." - sure.
"If you weren't a racist, if you didn't support discrimination you would abhor the use of the word African to designate only blacks." - why? I fail to see what is discriminating about assigning an approved word for a certain racial group.
"You would rightly cringe everytime you heard in knowing that it marginalizes a large section of your fellow South Africans." - that is a function of classification. What is so abnormal about it?
"You would know that it gives a feeling of unwelcomeness and resentment to people who want to help shape this country, to make it great." - why? I cannot understand why a person who is classified as "White" would feel more unwelcome as a person classified "African".

You can't see how a person who was born here, whose family has been here for countless generations might be offended by being told that they don't belong here? Then you are truly lost.
 
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"It is still discrimination, dressed up and permitted by the ANC. Their approval of it hasn't changed its nature. It is still discrimination and it is still wrong.

They believe it to be "correcting the wrong of the past" which is sadly misguided. What they really doing is repeating the mistakes of the past." - you still believe you are right. But you are in the minority, and the High Court, Constitutional Court and Parliament and Government of the Republic of South Africa, and many, many Africans (almost 80% of the population) disagree with you. I have to inform you.

"So albino's are considered white then? And what exactly qualifies as white skin? What exactly is the tone that is needed to check this box? What if someone has been in the sun all summer and is tanned? " - My man. You know as well as I do that both of us can recognise an African, white, Asian or coloured, in probably 95% of all cases, within moments. Do not try to get technical.
 
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It seems I have to repeat myself tonight - none that I've read through mention race nor are there any "conditions above the dotted line where you sign the BI form." pertaining to classification.

Do you have a specific form in mind perhaps?I'm sorry - I thought you referred me to the home affairs website . . . wait - you did.

My man. I directed you to the website of the SA Home Affairs department to give you an impression of what BI forms mean. I did not say that you will be able to download the forms to prove that there are dotted lines to sign, based on tick boxes for racial classification. If you want to see that, go to your nearest Home Affairs office and get those forms that are listed on the website as non-downloadable. Then you will see what I mean.

By the way, if they have your ID number, they know your race already, as assigned at birth. It is the last 3 digits of your ID number. So everytime you fill in your ID number anywhere, you let them know your race in any case. By the way, this system was designed in the Apartheid years. So the legacy is merely being carried through! :D
 
you still believe you are right. But you are in the minority, and the High Court, Constitutional Court and Parliament and Government of the Republic of South Africa, and many, many Africans (almost 80% of the population) disagree with you. I have to inform you.

Amazingly enough truth is not determined by what is popular.

I leave you with this:

dis·crim·i·na·tion (dĭ-skrĭm'ə-nā'shən) pronunciation
n.

1. The act of discriminating.
2. The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.
3. Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners.

My man. You know as well as I do that both of us can recognise an African, white, Asian or coloured, in probably 95% of all cases. Do not try to get technical.

Try to get technical? You are talking about classify a person in a way that will drastically affect their life and you wish not to get technical?

Pathetic.
 
By the way, if they have your ID number, they know your race already, as assigned at birth. It is the last 3 digits of your ID number. So everytime you fill in your ID number anywhere, you let them know your race in any case. By the way, this system was designed in the Apartheid years. So the legacy is merely being carried through! :D

How proud you must be.

Funny how you are quick to call far the abolishment or change of all apartheid legacy names and yet you are very happy to adopt apartheid legacy racial systems. Very strange indeed.
 
Try to get technical? You are talking about classify a person in a way that will drastically affect their life and you wish not to get technical?

Pathetic.

"Amazingly enough truth is not determined by what is popular." - has got nothing to do with truth. Has got to do with what is right and what is wrong. More people, in number and in level of importance, than you, have determined that discrimination in AA and BEE is in order and can be applied by government, so that is the way it is.

"1. The act of discriminating." - fair enough. Describing the act as a verb.

"2. The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment." - not relevant. Example sentence: "He discriminated between the fine leaves of the first tree and the slightly rougher leaves of the second tree." This is by no means derogitory - merely an English word synonym to "discern". That is why the word "discernment" is supplied as well.

"3. Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners." - racial classification does not constitute any physical treatment or consideration. It is a plain formal act of classifying you under a race. No actions or considerations lead from it.

So, based on your fancy dictionary lookup of discrimination, you still have not shown that racial classification = discrimination.

"Try to get technical? You are talking about classify a person in a way that will drastically affect their life and you wish not to get technical?" - the standard means of identifying a South African's race, even if it is as quick as a mere glimpse, is sufficient for accurate racial classification in probably 95% of all cases, and therefor does not warrant any special or technical considerations or specifications to cater for the remaining 5% of cases, which are addressed by means of the self-classification solution as I pointed out earlier, by the person him/herself or parent / legal guardian in case of under legal age circumstance.
 
How proud you must be.

Funny how you are quick to call far the abolishment or change of all apartheid legacy names and yet you are very happy to adopt apartheid legacy racial systems. Very strange indeed.

I never said or intended to imply that I am happy to adopt apartheid legacy racial systems, like the 3-digit race indicator in ID numbers mentioned here. I merely pointed out that the system is carried through from Apartheid. I did not indicate that I condone or disapprove of it.

Please do not put words or statements in my mouth that I did not say or intend to imply. You are not the first person in this thread that have tried this on me. Please do not do it again. I promise you I am sharp enough to pick it up and that I will respond and action on it each time it happens. Your attempts to find inconsistencies or to create false inconsistencies in my posts will fail.
 
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that's a white person talking there :D

No man, I'm black. Don't you know black is the new black?

capetonian688 (I take it you call yourself capetonian since you identify with or originate from cape town... and obviously your parents came from cape town, and obviously your grandparents come from cape town, and clearly their parents also come from cape town since, say, were any such ancestors to have come from KZN you would obviously not be a capetonian... ) --->

on a more serious note, part of the victory over apartheid is in the victory over the state's right to classify people in the very way you advocate... geddit? Claim victory over apartheid by acting in a manner super-apartheid (the word 'super' meant in the latin sense of the terminology i.e. 'above' or 'beyond'). capetonian - I'm saying transcend apartheid. As the saying goes, "in fighting evil be careful not to become evil".

Seriously, the whole 'white people can't call themselves African' thing REALLY pisses white people off, 'cos it's like on the one hand it's all "go united multi-racial democracy" and on the other it's like "you white beeatches are just sort-of 'visiting' this continent, you're not really of it". Just like apartheid stripped blacks of the political right to identify with their homeland (remember how Bophu-something-swana was considered a 'different country' in the eyes of the apartheid state, and how it was on this basis that the lack of voting rights for blacks was defended in the international arena...?), so too does your perspective strip whites of the political right to identify with our homeland. There's no difference.... in fighting evil be careful not to become that which you fight...

bwana, as a professional Euro-American (assuming you are white), or professional African-American (in case you are black), or a professional Asian-American (assuming you have dominent Asian hereditory), or a professional Latino-American (assuming you had Latin-American ancestors who, at the time of your birth, had not been resident in the USA for a period exceeding that which, under the normal course of law, said law would have considered such ancestors to be naturalised persons on account of their period of residency... and so on...)... are we in SA obsessed with race? Assuming a yes answer, necessarily or unnecessarily?
 
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Please do not put words or statements in my mouth that I did not say or intend to imply. You are not the first person in this thread that have tried this on me. Please do not do it again. I promise you I am sharp enough to pick it up and that I will respond and action on it each time it happens. Your attempts to find inconsistencies or to create false inconsistencies in my posts will fail.

well nobody is agreeing with you. And I don't think anybody is saying that your posts are inconsistent either. Your posts are consistent, just one sided and very narrow minded. You posts don't need to be inconsistent to be dumb.
 
Is your skin white? If so, then by law, you cannot be classified as a black African, or African for that matter.
Note again that this is not discrimination or racism. It is a pure administrative formality. And needs to be correct.

And a black albino?

Using racial characteristics as a milestone for demarcation is plain stupid.
As was shown over and over with the Apartheid "reclassification" of people.

Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat its failures.
 
So, an african woman has a child with a white man. Is the child African?
What if the mans parents were also mixed race?
What if the African woman had a white grandfather?

So we then resort to classification based on measurements of hair curliness and the shape of the kids nose?

Remember Capetonian688 - you have already said the "skin must be black". Can the child have Nordic bone structure and a black skin and then qualify?
Or is it also permissible to have African facial features and a whiter skin?
Is there a middle ground where the two compensate?

Originally Posted by Capetonian688 View Post
My man. You know as well as I do that both of us can recognise an African, white, Asian or coloured, in probably 95% of all cases. Do not try to get technical.

95% woohoo. So we can also then arbitarily base all our decisions on that then?
What about the 5% - do they not count? I suppose since whites account for 5% of the population they do not count either?
People over the age of 70 may account for 5% of the population - again they do not count by your definition.
When someone repairs your car, 95% will be good enough for you - you do not really need the other 5% of the car sprayed.

And then of course, WHO decides what is "good" enough to be African or white? The HA official? Or do they call in the dudes that measure facial characteristics - I am sure we can find some of the old okes from the Apartheid years who specialised in that.
 
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When someone labels me an African, does it make me proud?
Sorry to say, I am not patriotic to the extent that i believe i am better than anyone else born anywhere else in the world.
 
When someone labels me an African, does it make me proud?
Sorry to say, I am not patriotic to the extent that i believe i am better than anyone else born anywhere else in the world.

While you are right to an extent, the problem here is not what you think, but rather what others think of you.
 
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