Reflexology anyone?

[Sensorei]

I'm not sure if you're deluded or just defending a source of income. Whatever, we obviously have different points of view. I'm of the opinion that these scams are harmful.

BTW: If my child told me that he could see auras, I'd be visiting a neurologist pretty damn soon. Seeing as it is a symptom of epilepsy and all.

There are loads of scammers out there in the alternative healing industry. That is definitely true but it doesn't make them all fake. But then of course you are too narrow minded to realise that.

BTW: I hope you dont/never have children.

 

[arf9999]

BTW: I hope you dont/never have children.

I'm not particularly concerned about your hopes, judging from your beliefs I can't see how they could be relevant in the real world. I'm done discussing this. Go play with your crystals.

 

[Sensorei]

I was never having a discussion with you. I was merely proving how narrowminded you are so others don't get infected. Point proven.

 

[Empiricism Philosopher]

The Placebo,- if the only evidence other than the fact that they feel less discomfort or none is most likely because of the Placebo Effect and that i would take any other reasonable explaining as something physical like nerve endings being killed similar to acupuncture to those areas. I suppose after all they do hit nerve points don't they which is a bit doge seeing that it is done free hand and no human's nerve endings are the same. What also could be happing is restructuring of the brains neurons assigning new functions to them by stimulation of touch.

 

[DJ...]

How much do you know about Qi or reflexology?

I know as much as what was sufficient for me to make a logical judgement about it. If you want to debate that qi and reflexology are scientifically proven, then please do so. I honestly would love to see it. However I have pointed out the flaws, shortcomings and fallacies of it and all you are able to do is ask a simple question (yes, usually derived from very simple people - probably not entirely your fault) which has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of any points I have raised. Typical...

I feel no need to convince anyone to the contrary.

Of course you do - otherwise you'd have never responded to this thread...

I put forward an alternative view of life and interactions. It is your choice to either reject it or consider that it might add some new possibilities to your life.

Any Tom, Dick or Harry can conjure up supposed "theories". Unless such theories are able to be backed up with evidence, any logical human being should consider them BS. Reflexology has no scientific basis - end of story. If you wish to continue with this drivel, then at least back it up with some form of reputable evidence...

The problem most here have is they have never tried the reflexology/SCIO!!!

Yes, because most of us can think for ourselves and don't require the church of scientology to attempt to attempt to do it for us (and charge us a fortune to do so). peder, do you have any idea about the inner workings of this SCIO machine? Do you have any idea regarding its scientology origins? Are you a scientologist? If not, do you have any idea how badly you have been duped?

Arf9999 it must suck to be you. Being so narrow minded has to really suck. People are capable of far more powerful things than the mundane things we do in the physical realm. By denying that you are just denying your own potential abilities and insulting yourself. How sad.

I am a vehement protagonist against the likes of SCIO, yet I do not dismiss the scientific evidence abound regarding the human mind. This is a massive illogical conclusion which many proponents of such devices are prone to. I can only speak for myself, however I believe it is true for many in the same position as me, when I say that I believe that the human mind is capable of extraordinary things; however believing that the SCIO will diagnose you and massaging your hands will heal you, is not one of them. It's such a pity that so many people cannot tell the difference between science and pseudo-science. It's about educating yourself - not about believing in every single romantic notion which we are prone to both conjuring up, and believing...

There are loads of scammers out there in the alternative healing industry. That is definitely true but it doesn't make them all fake.

Do point me in the direction of the "alternative" healers who have a solid track record. Those who can actually perform supposed "miracles" with actual evidence of such. Good luck...

 

[risingtide]

I know as much as what was sufficient for me to make a logical judgement about it. If you want to debate that qi and reflexology are scientifically proven, then please do so. ..

I don't want to debate whether Qi, its associated cosmology and the many healing method it has produced is scientifically proven because it is not.
What would be much more interesting (imo) to debate is whether despite this, the idea of Qi and the philosophy behind energetic healing in general, could in some way enhance our life experience. Millions of people would answer with an unequivocal yes.

 

[arf9999]

Millions of people voted for Hitler. Mass delusion isn't a basis for medical intervention. CAM is generally harmless fluff that indeed makes some people feel better (due to the placebo effect), but it can be dangerous due to misdiagnosis of ailments that are easily treated by conventional western medicine. When the people most vocal in support of these treatments are also the people that make their living peddling this counterknowledge, one has to question the motives.

 

[Peder]

Yes, because most of us can think for ourselves and don't require the church of scientology to attempt to attempt to do it for us (and charge us a fortune to do so). peder, do you have any idea about the inner workings of this SCIO machine? Do you have any idea regarding its scientology origins? Are you a scientologist? If not, do you have any idea how badly you have been duped?

I see where this is going... you can't get what you want so of course almost anything (that doesn't suit you isn't suddenly good for you), i see you can write a good argument but there is one HUGE HUGE HUGE floor!!! you have never tried it yourself because you are scared it will work... So please stop with your "stuff" and just go on with your life. And btw... the OP asked if anyone had tried it and had it worked???? not have you checked the internet to see if its real...

So obviously you check your ailments on the internet and treat them with "western" medicine yourself? cause i can find quite a bit of evidence pointing to how bad "western" medicine is. We are FORCED to drink fluoride every day cause its "supposedly" good for your teeth, but it can hurt your body...

 

[DJ...]

Er, um, yar, sure. peder you're a lost cause. I've explained why I won't use such crap and it has nothing to do with me being scared of it actually working. I have no vested interest in such things, ergo I have no reason for wanting them not to work. You need to start thinking a little more logically and rationally before you post - otherwise it just reads as utter drivel. Your post above being testament to that fact...

 

[Gaz{M}]

i see you can write a good argument but there is one HUGE HUGE HUGE floor!!!

Please tell me about this huge floor - I am busy looking for venues for a matric dance.

 

[Peder]

Er, um, yar, sure. peder you're a lost cause. I've explained why I won't use such crap and it has nothing to do with me being scared of it actually working. I have no vested interest in such things, ergo I have no reason for wanting them not to work. You need to start thinking a little more logically and rationally before you post - otherwise it just reads as utter drivel. Your post above being testament to that fact...

Dude... are you losing it a bit??? seems you couldn't prove me wrong so you rather attack my personality...

 

[DJ...]

No little one, I attacked the lack of thought and logic applied to your post. To be honest I'd prefer to debate with someone able to answer questions posed to them (which you conveniently dodged). You have proven to be far too emotional about such issues time and time again, and that emotion tends to over-ride any logic which may creep in from time to time. Your childish arguments hold no water and require no rebutting - you do that for yourself...

 

[risingtide]

When the people most vocal in support of these treatments are also the people that make their living peddling this counterknowledge, one has to question the motives.

ECT (Electro Convulsive Therapy) is a treatment which is still used by psychiatrist in some cases. One could hardly imagine a less scientific treatment and it is openly admitted that it is not known how it works. It is used because it works (for some people).
In general, Psychiatry is not very scientific but quite often a matter of trial and error.

Either something works or it doesn't. To ascribe every effect/affect to the placebo effect because one cannot think of an explanation which fits ones viewpoint is just ridicolous.

 

[arf9999]

ECT (Electro Convulsive Therapy) is a treatment which is still used by psychiatrist in some cases. One could hardly imagine a less scientific treatment and it is openly admitted that it is not known how it works. It is used because it works (for some people).
In general, Psychiatry is not very scientific but quite often a matter of trial and error.

Either something works or it doesn't. To ascribe every effect/affect to the placebo effect because one cannot think of an explanation which fits ones viewpoint is just ridicolous.

Absolute nonsense. I'm beginning to feel that you do, in fact, have a financial incentive to defend these scams.

While medical solutions have been found via "trial and error", it is important to note the first part of that term. Trial. For a medical intervention to become approved and generally used, it goes through a clinical trial. That includes a double-blind test to ensure that the outcome is not due to the placebo effect. That is the key difference between medicine and quackery.

 

[Serqet]

Well i can see both sides of the story. My friend went to a reflexologist and they pinpointed that she had an underactive thyroid. She wasn't aware she had a problem with her thyroid so there was no way she could have given them hints to this condition. She then went to the GP and had her thyroid checked and the doctor confirmed that it was underactive and she's now on medication for it. That proves that there is some validity to reflexology.

 

[arf9999]

Symptoms of Hypothyroidism

* Poor muscle tone (muscle hypotonia)
* Fatigue
* Cold intolerance, increased sensitivity to cold
* Depression
* Muscle cramps and joint pain
* Goiter
* Thin, brittle fingernails
* Thin, brittle hair
* Paleness
* decreased sweating
* Dry, itchy skin
* Weight gain and water retention.[9][10][11]
* Bradycardia (low heart rate: less than sixty beats per minute)
* Constipation

Had she recently had a baby?... post-partum hypothyroidism is common (1 in 20 women suffer from it). Many of these symptoms she may have mentioned to the reflexologist...

 

[risingtide]

Absolute nonsense. I'm beginning to feel that you do, in fact, have a financial incentive to defend these scams.

While medical solutions have been found via "trial and error", it is important to note the first part of that term. Trial. For a medical intervention to become approved and generally used, it goes through a clinical trial. That includes a double-blind test to ensure that the outcome is not due to the placebo effect. That is the key difference between medicine and quackery.

You may be right. Come to think of it, applying a few 100 Volts to someones skull a couple of times, without having a clue how it works and what it exactly does to the brain, does sound and look very scrientific.
So does having to go back to the psychiatrist numerous times until he finds some medication that works.
If someone wants to call medicine, and especially psychiatry, an art, then I think we would be closer to the truth than when calling it a science. No disrespect to the medical profession, to be a great artist is a greater achievement than to be a lousy scientist.

 

[Serqet]

Symptoms of Hypothyroidism

Had she recently had a baby?... post-partum hypothyroidism is common (1 in 20 women suffer from it). Many of these symptoms she may have mentioned to the reflexologist...

She said she didn't say anything to the woman. The woman just picked up on it.

 

[pos(t)er]

Well i can see both sides of the story. My friend went to a reflexologist and they pinpointed that she had an underactive thyroid. She wasn't aware she had a problem with her thyroid so there was no way she could have given them hints to this condition. She then went to the GP and had her thyroid checked and the doctor confirmed that it was underactive and she's now on medication for it. That proves that there is some validity to reflexology.

If she'd been watching Oprah recently she could have made that diagnosis herself

 

[arf9999]

You may be right. Come to think of it, applying a few 100 Volts to someones skull a couple of times, without having a clue how it works and what it exactly does to the brain, does sound and look very scrientific.
So does having to go back to the psychiatrist numerous times until he finds some medication that works.
If someone wants to call medicine, and especially psychiatry, an art, then I think we would be closer to the truth than when calling it a science. No disrespect to the medical profession, to be a great artist is a greater achievement than to be a lousy scientist.

Your argument is a complete red herring. I'm no expert in psychiatry and have no real interest in it. You seem to be the one that is hung up on it. However I'm fairly sure that if I spend a bit of time I could find some clinical trials of ECT. Are you a Scientologist perhaps? Your whining about psychology is strangely familiar.
Edit: ooh look, 10 seconds of googling and I find this: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00627887 and this http://www.clinicaltrialssearch.org..._therapy_for_the_treatment_of_depression.html and this http://www.druglib.com/trial/87/NCT00627887.html.... and plenty more.

Let's go back to what I said: reflexology, chriropractic manipulation, crystal healing, reiki, homeopathy, aromatherapy,and the SCIO machine are all quackery. If they worked, there would be no issue conducting clinical trials on them. But since there have been no successful clinical trials that demonstrate any advantage over that of a control group that received a placebo, it has to be concluded that they do not work. I think most of the purveyors of these services know full well that they don't work and that makes them scamsters. And worse: knowingly peddling non-effective remedies is criminally dangerous.