SA 'heading towards recession'

boom then recession --- tell this to the majority in ZA who battled to make ends meet during the boom, it's just got a whole lot worse for them.
I [imho] believe that people do not realise how bad this is gonna get - from a global perspective - the utter carnage that will take place is unparalled - interesting times indeed - oh, and buy physical gold :-)
 
boom then recession --- tell this to the majority in ZA who battled to make ends meet during the boom, it's just got a whole lot worse for them.
I [imho] believe that people do not realise how bad this is gonna get - from a global perspective - the utter carnage that will take place is unparalled - interesting times indeed - oh, and buy physical gold :-)

i've just found my new soulmate
:D
 
boom then recession --- tell this to the majority in ZA who battled to make ends meet during the boom, it's just got a whole lot worse for them.
I [imho] believe that people do not realise how bad this is gonna get - from a global perspective - the utter carnage that will take place is unparalled - interesting times indeed - oh, and buy physical gold :-)

Can you eat gold? Cook with it? Defend yourself with it? No, buy guns, ammo and tinned food.

[/tongue-in-cheek]
 
@BM :-))
I guess that what makes a market - different opinions :-)

no, but it does not erode like worthless FIAT - 2008/2009 - the race is on for global devaluation of FIAT <positions tinfoil hat on noggin]
 
I [imho] believe that people do not realise how bad this is gonna get - from a global perspective - the utter carnage that will take place is unparalled - interesting times indeed - oh, and buy physical gold :-)

lol. Ok, I'll start digging a bomb shelter tonight in my backyard. ;)
 
I just got a credit card with a R30k limit .... yay!
 
Given the quality of data that Stats SA has been providing over the last few years, we probably won't know when we're in one. :p
 
For those baiting me for a response to this, I will humour you, even though this is merely sensationalist journalism...

Firstly as already pointed out, but I will do it again to stress the point, "in macroeconomics, a recession is a decline in a country's real gross domestic product (GDP), or negative real economic growth, for two or more successive quarters of a year."

So yes this expert is merely predicting that we may have two quarters of negative growth within the next two years. This also needs to be seen in the context of most economists often having difficulty agreeing on things like interest rates hikes, never mind forecasting a recession. This can be proven by the fact that he states that "there is little dispute that the USA is in a recession already" which is contrary to most views which states that the US may be heading into a recession. It is not as if a sign gets put up straight away saying "recession". Markets take a while to factor in all influences.

It also humours me that the guessing of a possible recession within two years, which again only means two consecutive quarters of no growth, is gleefully responded to by many yet reports showing the expected growth of this country to be in excess of 4% per annum for the next few years is laughed at..... there are none so deaf as those who will not hear....

I personally feel this guy has got this all wrong... there is so much contracted infrastructure spending over the next two years that it is going to take a lot to achieve negative growth.

But this is one man's prediction and not fact so if he is wrong he merely hides, if he is right he comes out and brags...
 
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House Price growth has stagnated with the increased inflation/cost of living/prime lending rate and in some instances even started to degrade so it's a very real possibilty that you might be able to buy houses for less then their current value if we went into recession.
However not for drastically reduced prices like some wish to believe.
No, and the the upper end is where most of the price reduction happens. This may even drive up the price of lower cost housing as demand for it rises.

I [imho] believe that people do not realise how bad this is gonna get - from a global perspective - the utter carnage that will take place is unparalled - interesting times indeed - oh, and buy physical gold :-)
We'll see.

I just got a credit card with a R30k limit .... yay!
If you are someone who knows how to control their spending a credit card is the best way to buy everything.
 
House Price growth has stagnated with the increased inflation/cost of living/prime lending rate and in some instances even started to degrade so it's a very real possibilty that you might be able to buy houses for less then their current value if we went into recession.
However not for drastically reduced prices like some wish to believe.

Have a look at how many people are selling at below what they bought for, since they cannot afford to service their bond anymore, a friend runs a auction company and he is getting around 10 properties per day from people who need to sell.
 
As mentioned the OP posted one economists outlook, so let's balance that with another...

Interest rates key in a tougher environment

In a tougher 2008 keeping an eye on interest rates is key to a successful year ahead. High interest rates and slower economic growth globally will see consumers feeling the pinch and tightening their belts in 2008. It's a tougher year ahead - with more difficult conditions than we have seen over the past few years. That's the view of STANLIB's chief economist Kevin Lings, who forecasts interest rate and inflation pressure telling on consumers and companies in 2008.

Lings sees the global and local outlook as more difficult than it has been in the past few years. Both globally and locally interest rates could dictate market moves and any interest rate movements will be key to the market's performance.

Lings emphasizes that we cannot separate our local outlook from the global views, trends and events, "What happens in the US and other markets affects the South African market. Globally the developed world is slowing and the question for emerging markets is will they hold up? We see higher risk being attached to some emerging markets like SA and lower returns than we have seen over the last four years."

The US remains a key factor - and concern remains that the US will slip into recession. Economic growth in the US is likely to be under 1.5% for 2008, and this is a marked slowdown from the long term average growth rate of just over 3% and the 2007 growth rate of over 2%.

"The reasons for this are the weak housing market, higher interest rates and inflation; and general lack of confidence."

Lings believes that a recession can be avoided if the US Fed cuts interest rates sufficiently in the months ahead, but still manages to keep inflation under control. "It's a very difficult situation to manage, and difficult economic conditions could end up being a factor in the elections."

It's not just the US that has economic challenges to deal with in 2008; the UK, Euro region and Japan are all struggling and Lings sees all but the Japan central bank cutting rates in coming months. "We are likely to see lower global interest rates this year."

"China and India have spent huge amounts on infrastructure and have generated significant internal demand so to a degree they are not as impacted by global trends as other economies."

So how will we and other emerging economies hold up? While recession is unlikely Lings sees a definite slowdown in these markets.

"Interest rates are high in South Africa and we believe they will remain high for most of the year. Consumers are starting to tighten their belts and retail sales and vehicle sales are lower. House sales are slowing and prices are under pressure."

"Higher interest rates mean higher cash returns and portfolios may increase their cash holdings to benefit from this.

"Inflation remains problematic - well over 8% in the short term moving closer to 6% by the end of the year. But it is unlikely to be convincingly in the target range this year."

With pressure on food prices (a global trend), wages and electricity charge increases short term inflation is mostly reflecting cost pressures. Add to the equation rising medical and education costs, and the inflation picture does not look so healthy.

"A 2008 trend could well be increasing bad debts and stress borrowing from consumers."

"What should hold up well in 2008 is fixed investment spending and we could see more infrastructural projects being undertaken, but it won't temper all of the downside."

SA is still running a large trade and current account deficit. With increased global risk aversion and a higher risk assessment of SA, reflecting high inflation, interest rates and the ongoing uncertainty around the position of Jacob Zuma, SA's balance of payments position is extremely vulnerable.

"We are forecasting local growth of around 4% - which is still reasonable but not as high as the 5% of the last three years and there is a risk that it could be revised lower."

Are there opportunities in the less than rosy outlook?

"Yes," says Lings. "While earnings of many companies will be under pressure with a stretched consumer, companies with quality earnings could be an opportunity in 2008."

Investors need to look out for companies that can hold onto their prices, are offering products consumers have to buy like basic necessities and those who will benefit from the infrastructure spend.

"Infrastructure spend is a global trend and is likely to pick up over the next few years."

"IT is also an area to look out for. In SA and globally IT spend has lagged and IT upgrades will happen."

With the rand under pressure and global interest rate trends ahead of SA, local investors may see opportunities in offshore markets.

"The key is interest rates - it's a cautious and defensive start to the year but if conditions start improving and rates bottoming out investors need to watch for companies that will benefit from these conditions."

It's been a great few years, with more to come, but tougher conditions are the order of the day as we start 2008.

Just to point out for those who miss it in the article, this economic slowdown is not unique to South Africa and not caused by Eskom! Weak housing market, higher interest rates and inflation; and general lack of confidence are not just a South African phenomenon!
 
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i'm not sure how long the process normally takes, but i have been on myproperty.co.za most of today, looking at prices and areas...over 100 pages i went through (pity me please..)

things i have noticed
"urgent sale"
"owner emigrating"
and many have been on the market since oct07 and before.

quite a few of the pictures showed established houses and gardens, but the rooms were all empty of furniture...i.e. owner already left./reposession>?

thoughts?
 
i'm not sure how long the process normally takes, but i have been on myproperty.co.za most of today, looking at prices and areas...over 100 pages i went through (pity me please..)

things i have noticed
"urgent sale"
"owner emigrating"
and many have been on the market since oct07 and before.

quite a few of the pictures showed established houses and gardens, but the rooms were all empty of furniture...i.e. owner already left./reposession>?

thoughts?

Wrong thread surely? Or are we also going to turn this one into yet another "emigrations anonymous" thread?
 
Wrong thread surely? Or are we also going to turn this one into yet another "emigrations anonymous" thread?
jeez, sorry sirlancelot, didnt mean to post something valid and on topic.
no money means nobody buying houses, a link to this murmored recession.

was just merely querying if normal, URGENT-type sales expect to sit on the market for 7months+, or is it because PEOPLE HAVE NO MONEY.
emigration has nothing to do with my motivation for posting, there is nothing between the lines so stop looking.
 
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