SA Politics Thread Part 11: The GNU Normal

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Despises? What are you on about, man?

It's not like he called EWC on them or that he rants about the "bourgeoisie WMC"...
Maybe despises is too strong a word, but it's still an odd political move to make where he is criticising some of his most loyal supporters. It's not very well-argued either. Do you pay difference prices for bread, chairs or a Ferrari based on income? No! It's effectively a wealth tax while not calling it as such.
 
  • There are growing calls for Nobuhle Nkabane to be dismissed after she skipped a portfolio committee meeting on Friday.
  • The president is hesitant to fire her after Senzo Mchunu’s suspension, fearing accusation that he is unfairly targeting KwaZulu-Natal officials.
  • Senior ANC leaders are reportedly supporting Nkabane, despite her falling out of favour with Ramaphosa.
President Cyril Ramaphosa’s delay in acting against errant Higher Education and Training Minister Nobuhle Nkabane has increased speculation about the sensitive ANC dynamics, as she digs in on her defiance of Parliament.
While the decision to cancel her trip to China last week seemed like some action was looming, the presidency has remained mum while the ANC continues to defend her.
After failing to appear before the portfolio committee on higher education on Friday, the opposition parties renewed their call for her to be fired.
Nkabane was supposed to brief the committee on the Seta board members’ selection process, which was abandoned two months ago after a public outcry that many of the appointees were aligned with the ANC. Her last-minute apology angered the committee, which called for action against her.

In her apology, which was rejected by the committee chairperson, Tebogo Letsie, Nkabane said she was attending a gender-based violence event at a TVET College in the Eastern Cape. The committee, including ANC members, called for action to be taken against her for her behaviour.
However, sources told City Press that, though Nkabane has fallen out of favour with President Cyril Ramaphosa, there were senior party officials who are against the idea of her dismissal.
The sources said her relationship with some senior ANC leaders, including Gwede Mantashe and Lindiwe Zulu, has saved her from dismissal.

“Some leaders have worked with her family, who are considered loyal party members and they have played a role in her survival,” said the source.
Lol, "we worked with your family, so lying to Parliament multiple times is fine, Comrade"
The source said her behaviour had forced Ramaphosa to “ground her” on overseas trips.
Last week, Ramaphosa reportedly instructed Nkabane to cancel her trip to China as part of the delegation accompanying Deputy President Paul Mashatile, who was on a working visit.
The source said the president had second thoughts about firing her after he had placed Police Minister Senzo Mchunu on special leave.
He wanted to decide last week, but, after consultations, he realised that it was not a good idea to remove the two people from the same province. It was going to look like he was targeting KwaZulu-Natal.
A source

According to the source, Ramaphosa considered the ANC’s vulnerable position in the province, which contributed to the decline of support in last year’s national elections.
Said the source: “Such action would mean that he must replace her with a woman from the same province. But the question is, who would that be, considering the current situation? Not that there are no people who can fill the position, but who is the right candidate?”
City Press understands that some members of the national working committee believe that Nkabane’s actions warranted a punishment but not dismissal, as it would send the wrong message.
“There are those who believe that a dismissal would be harsh,” said the source, who is adamant that Nkabane will not survive for long.

Before her no-show on Friday, ANC secretary-general Fikile Mbalula had defended her, saying she had erred and owned up to her mistakes. He said that, when a minister is charged by Parliament for lying, the process needs to be followed.
“And that is called the ethics committee, where you’ve got to prove that this minister lied to Parliament,” he said.
Mbalula said Nkabane had worked to correct her mistake around the Setas controversy.

He said she had apologised and had re-run the process of choosing the new board members.
“Should the ethics committee conclude that the minister lied, then they will make recommendations to the president and everyone else on what needs to happen,” he said.
Mbalula said:
The minister did that [appearing before the committee] for good governance and accountability. She’s now accused of lying about members of the committee and all of that, which involved a senior, respectable advocate in our country. The minister, again, responded.
Fikile Mbalula
He said the ANC ethics committee had not discussed her behaviour because Parliament must handle the matter.
Presidential spokesperson, Vincent Magwenya, could not be reached for comment and, by the time of publication, had not responded to questions sent to him.
 
Lol, "we worked with your family, so lying to Parliament multiple times is fine, Comrade"
Strange when he fired Whitfield then he was empowered by the constitution, and everyone serves at his discretion.

When it comes to their own, then there's all sorts of excuses about KZN and who in the ANC isn't going to be happy.

This party has lost control, it's a free for all there. The thieves are running the show, Cyril is their puppet...
 
No, because they're products. Not services, taxes or rates which have different ways of being calculated.

So I get the argument that a fee for a service (such as cleaning) has no bearing on the value of ones property in an area.

rates and taxes are a different ballgame though.
 
Strange when he fired Whitfield then he was empowered by the constitution, and everyone serves at his discretion.
That's what's funny.

Everyone got wonderful lectures about presidential powers and S91.2 with Whitfield, but now that there's a Minister who has been caught lying to Parliament multiple times, suddenly S91.2 doesn't matter...
When it comes to their own, then there's all sorts of excuses about KZN and who in the ANC isn't going to be happy.

This party has lost control, it's a free for all there. The thieves are running the show, Cyril is their puppet...
Yup, always a factional excuse. Always 'ANC First'. I said this yesterday, and I'll say it again.

This term will be the final nail in the coffin for ANC, because they're finally exposing themselves completely.
 
No, because they're products. Not services, taxes or rates which have different ways of being calculated.
But is it fair to charge higher cleaning fees, fixed water & electricity fees (remember property rates are already calculated as % of property value) when people are in theory receiving the same service? Does the DA really pave more roads in and around Clifton than Goodwood? Probably not. Putting in a water meter in Clifton should in theory cost the same as in Goodwood.
 
No, because they're products. Not services, taxes or rates which have different ways of being calculated.

Should a "wealthy" household pay more for their sewage connection than a "poor" household?

I had to pay extra because I had three toilets that flushed four people's waste down a single pipe, while not too far away, people were paying less because a single toilet flushed 12 people's waste down a single pipe.

Should a mansion with two retired people living in it pay more for garbage removal than a two-bedroom house with 15 people in it?
 
Should a "wealthy" household pay more for their sewage connection than a "poor" household?

I had to pay extra because I had three toilets that flushed four people's waste down a single pipe, while not too far away, people were paying less because a single toilet flushed 12 people's waste down a single pipe.

Should a mansion with two retired people living in it pay more for garbage removal than a two-bedroom house with 15 people in it?
You could ask the same about income tax. Poor people can't afford to pay more, that's the reality. The city and country needs the money. It works on a sliding scale (around the world) so everyone feels the same impact relative to their income...
 
The US government says it has already refused to speak to Mcebisi Jonas, South Africa's special envoy to the US, in May this year and has repeatedly asked for another envoy to negotiate with.

This is one of a list of explosive allegations that an adviser to Pres. Donald Trump made to Emma Powell, the DA's spokesperson on international relations, this past week.

Powell shared the message with Rapport after the presidency accused her of spreading misinformation. She requested that the Trump official remain anonymous to protect relationships.

According to the messages, the US government had already rejected a diplomatic visa for Jonas in May and his credentials were also recently rejected.

The Trump official claims that the South African government has been communicated for months that the US wants another envoy. This message was apparently passed on to five different ANC government officials.

The Trump official says he is concerned that South Africa is days away from 30% import tariffs, but that there is still no one with whom they can negotiate about it.


Powell raised the alarm earlier this week about Jonas’ absence in the US. She said Pres. Cyril Ramaphosa has known for months that Jonas is not welcome in Washington DC.

The presidency dismissed Powell’s allegations as sensationalism and misinformation.

“The DA has positioned itself as part of a right-wing group that is trying to use a foreign state to bring about changes to democratically developed national policies in our own country,” Vincent Magwenya, Ramaphosa’s spokesperson, said on Tuesday evening.

According to Magwenya, special envoys like Jonas are also not required to present diplomatic credentials to host countries such as ambassadors and other diplomats. He says Jonas played a leading role in the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition’s negotiations with the US government.

However, Magwenya did not leave him out about the rejected diplomatic visa.

The ANC also accused Powell of racism and spreading misinformation.

Rapport revealed last week that Jonas was struggling to gain access to the US government.

Magwenya then refused to reveal any information about Jonas' work in the US and only said that the president was "satisfied" with his work.

However, the Trump official's messages paint a dark picture of South Africa, which has almost no diplomatic representation within the borders of its second largest trading partner.

A person who liaises in Washington for South African businesses also says that the US government has been telling its clients for months that they "have no one to talk to" from the South African government side.

Ramaphosa’s appointment of Jonas as his special envoy to the US on 14 April blew up in his face within hours when the SABC revealed that Jonas had referred to Trump as a racist, homophobe and narcissist in 2020.

This came after Ebrahim Rasool, South Africa’s former ambassador to the US, was declared persona non grata by US Secretary of State Marco Rubio in March for accusing Trump of white supremacy.

On 19 May, Ramaphosa announced that Jonas would be part of his delegation to the White House to meet with Trump and his government officials.

However, at the meeting on 21 May, Jonas was conspicuous by his absence.

Shortly before the visit to the White House, Magwenya told Clement Manyathela, who was reporting from Washington for radio station 702, about Jonas’ absence that the White House had expressed its “displeasure” with his presence.

Two days later, on May 23, Magwenya issued a statement contradicting himself, saying there was no ulterior motive for Jonas' absence.

"Jonas assisted with the preparations for the meeting (between Ramaphosa and Trump), which included overseas consultations," Magwenya said in a statement at the time.

"His absence in Washington, at his own request, has no bearing on the President's official programme."

However, on June 10, Jonas's job description quietly changed when Ramaphosa began referring to him as his envoy to "North America" in a TV interview with the SABC.

This despite the fact that his appointment was heavily publicised as his role would be to "lead negotiations, foster strategic partnerships and engage with US officials and private sector leaders to advance our nation's interests."

Meanwhile, the South African

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The South African government is on the verge of sending the US government a negotiating template that will supposedly pave the way for negotiations for a new bilateral agreement.

Rapport reported last week that the South African government was caught off guard and left very frustrated by Trump's tariff threat that will come into effect on 1 August.

The South African government has been negotiating hard since Ramaphosa's visit to the White House in May to forge a new trade agreement.

A framework for such a trade agreement was sent to the Trump administration last month, but the Americans have not yet sent a counter-offer.

The two ministers leading the negotiations, Parks Tau of Trade, Industry and Competition and John Steenhuisen of Agriculture, were also in China this past week at the South Africa-China Investment Forum with Deputy President Paul Mashatile.

Lesetja Kganyago, governor of the Reserve Bank, warned last week that 100 000 jobs in South Africa could be at risk if Trump’s tariffs come into effect.

Dr. Corné Mulder, leader of the FF Plus, who also recently visited Washington, warns, however, that South Africa will first have to enter into a political agreement with the Americans before bilateral relations can be normalized.

At the time of Mulder’s visit, the Trump administration communicated four prerequisites to him. These are that land expropriation must take place against market-related compensation, farm murders must be classified as a priority crime, American companies must be exempted from race legislation, and that the “Kill the Boer” cry must be publicly condemned.

Mulder’s pleas to meet with Ramaphosa on this matter, however, have so far fallen on deaf ears.

The presidency initially referred him to the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition, after which Mulder insisted on a meeting with Ramaphosa in his capacity as party leader in the governing coalition.

Mulder was told last week that Ramaphosa’s diary would be looked at, but Magwenya told Rapport that such a meeting would not take place because governments do not negotiate with each other via non-governmental delegations.

Several government sources add that the prerequisites mentioned by Mulder were not communicated to them by the US government.

Meanwhile, the DA’s legal representatives are demanding answers from Ramaphosa and Khumbudzo Ntshavheni, Minister in the Presidency responsible for the State Security Agency (SSA), about who commissioned an alleged confidential classified intelligence report in which Powell is allegedly mentioned.

This report was quoted by The Sowetan on Thursday and it is alleged that Powell is pushing a “narrative against South Africa” abroad.

Powell travelled to the US in March with Andrew Whitfield, the DA's leader in the Eastern Cape. Whitfield was fired as deputy minister of trade, industry and competition by Ramaphosa earlier in July for taking this trip without the necessary approval.
 
You could ask the same about income tax. Poor people can't afford to pay more, that's the reality. The city and country needs the money. It works on a sliding scale (around the world) so everyone feels the same impact relative to their income...

Tax does not define the middle class. If there were no middle class at all, there would still be taxation.
 
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