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Sainet Company Response
Dear Users,
We specifically mentioned we will be launching Data only uncapped aco****s later than Line rental inclusive packages. Subsequently a couple users subscribed and if we are in error checking your line speed, then we publically apologise, this is a mistake from our side.
We withdrew all data only packages until our systems are ready to rate limit those users with higher speed facilities.
In addition there is no limit of 62gbyte, its simply an indicative figure
Regards
Sainet Management
Dear Users,
We specifically mentioned we will be launching Data only uncapped aco****s later than Line rental inclusive packages. Subsequently a couple users subscribed and if we are in error checking your line speed, then we publically apologise, this is a mistake from our side.
We withdrew all data only packages until our systems are ready to rate limit those users with higher speed facilities.
In addition there is no limit of 62gbyte, its simply an indicative figure
Regards
Sainet Management
Not only that what about us who have 384 lines, are our accounts also withdrawn?
shiro - your accounts will not be withdrawn
Adrenalin
Expert Member
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2009
- Messages
- 1,229
Now i have a HUGE issue,
Here is the response from Michelle, as well...
I have now paid R449 of MY MONEY, that I EARNED to them and they have given me a account for less than 2 days. 2 DAYS?!! WTF!!! And no refund, i am sorry but i strongly believe i am well within my rights to ask for a refund, even if it is a partial one. I could've got ALOT more bandwidth from AFRIHST for R449. And if i waited for their 2for1 special, i would've got double. What utter bs is this crap that i have to pay them R449 because i used the line? Big whoop, my line speed averaged 30someodd kb.
I will publicly humiliate them and refer them to NO ONE if i do not get a refund.
My line is paid for by my brother's company, do you think if i say "Hey guys i need to change the line to 384k because of my new ISP" please,get real now SAINET.
/pissed off
Here is the response from Michelle, as well...
I have now paid R449 of MY MONEY, that I EARNED to them and they have given me a account for less than 2 days. 2 DAYS?!! WTF!!! And no refund, i am sorry but i strongly believe i am well within my rights to ask for a refund, even if it is a partial one. I could've got ALOT more bandwidth from AFRIHST for R449. And if i waited for their 2for1 special, i would've got double. What utter bs is this crap that i have to pay them R449 because i used the line? Big whoop, my line speed averaged 30someodd kb.
I will publicly humiliate them and refer them to NO ONE if i do not get a refund.
My line is paid for by my brother's company, do you think if i say "Hey guys i need to change the line to 384k because of my new ISP" please,get real now SAINET.
/pissed off
So that seems to have been dealt with well, but seeing as this has happened on a commercially available service, I have a question. I only mention its commercial because its not in beta.
Its a 12 month contract, however makes no provision for the termination of the contract by the customer if the service should become unstable, unavailable or devolves to a standard below the agreed upon level.
In terms of the T & C, http://www.sainet.co.za/terms.asp
Sainet provides no terms under which its actions nor the quality of the service may constitute a breach of contract.
It does however state,
"5.1. Save as expressly set out in this Agreement, SAINET does not make any representations nor gives any warranties or guarantees of any nature whatsoever in respect of the Service/s and all warranties which are implied or residual at common law are hereby expressly excluded."
Furthermore,
"4.7. Under no circumstances may Customer resile from this Agreement or withhold or defer payment or be entitled to a reduction in any charge or have any other right or remedy against SAINET, its servants, its agents or any other persons for whom it may be liable in law (and in whose favour this provision constitutes a stipulation alteri) if SAINET interrupts the Service to Customer as it would be entitled to do if Customer is in default of any of its obligations under this Agreement to SAINET or in the circumstances contemplated in clause 6.4 below."
So in essence Sainet can provide the service at any speed or level of quality they wish, and the customer will not only be bound to continue the contract for the remainder of the 12 month period, but will also not be eligible for any recourse of any kind.
Another interesting clause is 4.5 below,
"4.5. Customer is prohibited from modifying any equipment (including but not limited to router equipment) utilised by Customer to receive any of the Service/s, in any way whatsoever, including the changing of any of the settings of such equipment."
It is an incredibly vague stipulation. Technically speaking, my computer is equipment utilized to receive the service, and I then can't change settings on my own property. Of course this is likely not the intention of the clause, and not enforcible, but even just in terms of the router, I can't change settings, what if it fails?
Normally I would ignore and dismiss T & C's as legal risk transferral and of no real consequence, but if I am going to have to sign a 12 month contract I want some kind of guarantee that the service is going to work, and that if it ceases to work that I can be released from the contract. It is advertised as a business service, meaning it would be expected that the service would continue uninterrupted without any reduction in quality. That is after all what you are paying for, and you would expect that if the service were to become less than that, that the seller would be in breach.
Take for example this issue with latencies. If I were to sign up for this service and I find it has poor latency, then it wouldn't be able to service my needs. So now despite the fact that the service is effectively useless to me, I have to continue paying for it (which on the 512 package with line rental included over 12 months would amount to R13800) for the full contract term regardless of the fact that I can't use it because it does not deliver what was advertised. It is true that the service makes no promise of good latency, but then if it was going to have poor latency it should be advertised as a low latency, high volume service.
Finally I would like to know if contract terms may be modified insofar as the level of the service chosen. In other words if I subscribe for the 384 service, would I be able to upgrade to the 512 service halfway through the contract period.
Its a 12 month contract, however makes no provision for the termination of the contract by the customer if the service should become unstable, unavailable or devolves to a standard below the agreed upon level.
In terms of the T & C, http://www.sainet.co.za/terms.asp
Sainet provides no terms under which its actions nor the quality of the service may constitute a breach of contract.
It does however state,
"5.1. Save as expressly set out in this Agreement, SAINET does not make any representations nor gives any warranties or guarantees of any nature whatsoever in respect of the Service/s and all warranties which are implied or residual at common law are hereby expressly excluded."
Furthermore,
"4.7. Under no circumstances may Customer resile from this Agreement or withhold or defer payment or be entitled to a reduction in any charge or have any other right or remedy against SAINET, its servants, its agents or any other persons for whom it may be liable in law (and in whose favour this provision constitutes a stipulation alteri) if SAINET interrupts the Service to Customer as it would be entitled to do if Customer is in default of any of its obligations under this Agreement to SAINET or in the circumstances contemplated in clause 6.4 below."
So in essence Sainet can provide the service at any speed or level of quality they wish, and the customer will not only be bound to continue the contract for the remainder of the 12 month period, but will also not be eligible for any recourse of any kind.
Another interesting clause is 4.5 below,
"4.5. Customer is prohibited from modifying any equipment (including but not limited to router equipment) utilised by Customer to receive any of the Service/s, in any way whatsoever, including the changing of any of the settings of such equipment."
It is an incredibly vague stipulation. Technically speaking, my computer is equipment utilized to receive the service, and I then can't change settings on my own property. Of course this is likely not the intention of the clause, and not enforcible, but even just in terms of the router, I can't change settings, what if it fails?
Normally I would ignore and dismiss T & C's as legal risk transferral and of no real consequence, but if I am going to have to sign a 12 month contract I want some kind of guarantee that the service is going to work, and that if it ceases to work that I can be released from the contract. It is advertised as a business service, meaning it would be expected that the service would continue uninterrupted without any reduction in quality. That is after all what you are paying for, and you would expect that if the service were to become less than that, that the seller would be in breach.
Take for example this issue with latencies. If I were to sign up for this service and I find it has poor latency, then it wouldn't be able to service my needs. So now despite the fact that the service is effectively useless to me, I have to continue paying for it (which on the 512 package with line rental included over 12 months would amount to R13800) for the full contract term regardless of the fact that I can't use it because it does not deliver what was advertised. It is true that the service makes no promise of good latency, but then if it was going to have poor latency it should be advertised as a low latency, high volume service.
Finally I would like to know if contract terms may be modified insofar as the level of the service chosen. In other words if I subscribe for the 384 service, would I be able to upgrade to the 512 service halfway through the contract period.
TrueTenacity
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
- Messages
- 740
Uhm, Guys, anyone here able to change their password for the Sainet selfcare website?
TrueTenacity
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
- Messages
- 740
WoW latency still in the 450-700 range, Skype still moaning about internet quality, but torrents and browsing never goes below 35kb/s
Can someone please ping games.saix.net and let me know if local latency is also affected? I haven't chosen an ISP yet, but SAINET is looking like it would fit my needs better than Afrihost atm. I just need to know that local latency isn't going to be an issue for gaming.
TrueTenacity
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2005
- Messages
- 740
Code:
C:\Users\TrueTenacity>ping games.saix.net
Pinging games.saix.net [196.43.22.222] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 196.43.22.222: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=243
Reply from 196.43.22.222: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=243
Reply from 196.43.22.222: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=243
Reply from 196.43.22.222: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=243
Ping statistics for 196.43.22.222:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 29ms, Maximum = 30ms, Average = 29msThe latency in WoW and skype seems to be coming in AFTER the hop across Seacom...
Thanks for that, it does seem to be a Seacom problem.