Scottish Referendum on Independence

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 59 53.2%

  • No

    Votes: 52 46.8%
  • Total voters
    111
  • Poll closed .
My Scottish grandpappy would have been proud of an independent Scotland.

However I do think it is impractical, and although this might have passed by a large majority in the early '90s , since then the fact is that Scotland do have a fair bit of independence already....the SNP will likely lose this.

But I do feel that they need to change the 'name' of their legislature....its hard to take it seriously when I always misread it as 'Hollywood/HolyRod/HollyOaks'
 
MickZA said:
I've listened to two live debates between Salmond and Darling neither of which could be categorised as "intelligent debate" but reminded me of the Monty Python "5mins Argument" sketch.

Alex Salmond in particular seems to think that if you talk over your opponent loudly enough you've proved your point. I suspect the Scots will vote to stay in the UK and it'll be interesting to hear what Salmond has to say should this prove to be the outcome.
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Agreed on the result. Have watched this for a while now and both sides of the fence have resorted to blatant mistruths, idiocy, carrots and veiled threats to try and push their arguments
 
Packer said:
That’s a biggie. I also think that parts of Scotland (Shetlands) who identify more with Northern European countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc.) than with Scotland, are going to add an extra twist to the drama. I just want to see egg on English faces. Heh, heh, heh.
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You will be surprised how many in England want to get rid of the Scots as well. Most actually couldn't care less. Especially Tories and UKIP voters. The only ones really worried are in the Labour Party. There are also SNP members in Westminster( yes the Scots whine about Westminster, but they are in the Parlement ). Some Tories will be glad to see the back of them. It will also strengthen the Tories.

Anyway, why are you so anti English specifically ? Btw, you of know that Scots have played a major role in the Britain's colonial past, in fact the Christian evangelical part of it is dominated by Scots. Especially in Ireland. The pro union movement in Northern Ireland is far more closely related to Scottish ancestors than English.

Your own "grand pappy", a colonist, is Scottish. And so is mine :)
 
zippy said:
There are also SNP members in Westminster( yes the Scots whine about Westminster, but they are in the Parlement ). Some Tories will be glad to see the back of them. It will also strengthen the Tories.

Anyway, why are you so anti English specifically ? Btw, you of know that Scots have played a major role in the Britain's colonial past, in fact the Christian evangelical part of it is dominated by Scots. Especially in Ireland. The pro union movement in Northern Ireland is far more closely related to Scottish ancestors than English.

Your own "grand pappy", a colonist, is Scottish. And so is mine :)
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I think you are talking to 2 different people with this post.

The Tories still have a lot to lose, even if it does increase their majority for a short while. Territory is always a big issue in the history of man.If the Scots are successful....there is a possibility that the Welsh will start making demands also.

David Livingstone was a Scot, and in the country I hail from (Malawi) the largest Christian denomination is an offshoot of the Scottish Presbyterian church. The commercial capital Blantyre is named after a town (and clan) in Scotland.

'I have nothing against the English except they are ****ers and we are ruled by ****ers'......Ewan Mcgregor,Trainspotting

Just kidding, a lot of me best mates are English and its one of the first places I noticed that religion and morality are not necessarily related. So I have nothing against the English except their darned weather.
 
imranpanji said:
I think you are talking to 2 different people with this post.

The Tories still have a lot to lose, even if it does increase their majority for a short while. Territory is always a big issue in the history of man.If the Scots are successful....there is a possibility that the Welsh will start making demands also.

David Livingstone was a Scot, and in the country I hail from (Malawi) the largest Christian denomination is an offshoot of the Scottish Presbyterian church. The commercial capital Blantyre is named after a town (and clan) in Scotland.

'I have nothing against the English except they are ****ers and we are ruled by ****ers'......Ewan Mcgregor,Trainspotting

Just kidding, a lot of me best mates are English and its one of the first places I noticed that religion and morality are not necessarily related. So I have nothing against the English except their darned weather.
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True. This is not only a Scot/English thing. The ripple effects are enormous. I know that Spain is watching. The Basque and Catalonia populations are looking for a precedent. Northern Ireland might flare-up again. Wales might get restless. States in the USA are getting sick of the federal system. Texas has always wanted to secede. The desire to legalise marijuana in many states puts them in direct conflict with federal law. And there are others.
 
If Scotland does split off, will it have an impact on Northern Ireland? It's peaceful now, but the population is still split close to 50-50 on identifying as Irish or British.
 
cr@zydude said:
If Scotland does split off, will it have an impact on Northern Ireland? It's peaceful now, but the population is still split close to 50-50 on identifying as Irish or British.
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Interesting. They have their own HolyRod of sorts there, although maybe not as free. With a bit of agitation by the sleeper irish nationalist commando regiments, it would not be hard to see things have the small possibility of exploding again.

All puns intended
 
Idiotic idea. Scotland is unsustainable on its own. Most employment is government based and their private sector is miniscule. They would be bankrupt very soon. If the guy that was leading the independance call was doing so to change that it may be a good idea as Scotland could cut down the big government easier without the English watching over them. Hilariously though their leader actually wants the opposite. He is saying they could prevent the cuts to government jobs easier if they where independant as London is currently trying to cut back on their bloated government sector.

If you want to watch a fun video series check the free youtube movie's called "Brittians trillion pound horror story". It paints the problem very well. Only London and the South is making the main island any money. The rest are 60-70% government jobs and the rest secondary services to those government jobs. They export nothing and are largely insolvent as individual regions. Kinda sad when you think about he industrial super power Northern England was in the past.
 
Idiotic idea. Scotland is unsustainable on its own. Most employment is government based and their private sector is miniscule. They would be bankrupt very soon.
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They have North Sea oil and gas revenues.
 
daveza said:
They have North Sea oil and gas revenues.
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Interesting. I think that might make it almost worse. Economies that rely too heavily on single sources of income that don't employ a lot of people tend to be sick. The Arab states are rife with rich governments and poor people. Only Norway seems to have gotten it right and they managed that by just saving all the oil revenue and building up a massive kitty with sustainable income. You really want an economy with a strong secondary (manufacturing) and tertiary (services) side as that is where the big value is. Economies like Germany and Japan are good examples. High employment levels and lots of good high value jobs. The middle class becomes your strength. Economies that are all oil/gas based have very small middle classes and hence their income is very dependant on that single stream of income. Your whole economy rises and falls with the oil price.

With how much money Israel is spending on alternate energy and the brains they have behind it I would hate to be one of the big energy heavy economies right now. They stand to loose the most when the disruptive innovation finally lands. Russia's economy is massively geared towards resources as is most of the middle east and that accounts for most if Israels primary enemies. They want to end the opposition economically rather than with a war as if they can produce cheap solar power the oil price will collapse along with the economies of their worst enemies.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Which are more than likely "owned" and such by British Companies that are based in England rather than Scotland.
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However the government revenues gained from there is one of the main reasons the Tories are fighting this.

I reiterate however that the SNP has erred in their strategy at this stage, and would have benefitted more by banging English heads with the referendum stick as a negotiation every 5 years instead of an actual vote. Unfortunately for everyone, Cameron called them out on it so they had to proceed.

I certainly don't think that it would have reached this stage with labour ( self preservation trumps all) , and the anti European stance by the English right is another factor which largely ignored. The Scots have tended to be pro Europe
 
ToxicBunny said:
Which are more than likely "owned" and such by British Companies that are based in England rather than Scotland.
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And when the Scots start nationalising the oil fields, it will violate most EU regulations damaging their EU prospects. They have very little choice but to join EU and even to take up the Euro because they wont get the pound.

Alex Salmon has said they don't need UK permission to use the pound. He is correct. But then he joins a rather exclusive club of losers like Zimbabwe.
 
zippy said:
And when the Scots start nationalising the oil fields, it will violate most EU regulations damaging their EU prospects. They have very little choice but to join EU and even to take up the Euro because they wont get the pound.

Alex Salmon has said they don't need UK permission to use the pound. He is correct. But then he joins a rather exclusive club of losers like Zimbabwe.
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Of course they don't need UK permission to use the pound, but the UK can then quite happily start implementing all sorts of thigns that make Scotlands life difficult...
 
ToxicBunny said:
Of course they don't need UK permission to use the pound, but the UK can then quite happily start implementing all sorts of thigns that make Scotlands life difficult...
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Its election time.

A lot of rhetoric by the politicians is just that, and mainly to influence the vote. If the yes vote wins all cards will be off the table again and some hectic negotiations will be held and the result will be different to the scenarios that both sides are punting at the moment
 
zippy said:
And when the Scots start nationalising the oil fields, it will violate most EU regulations damaging their EU prospects. They have very little choice but to join EU and even to take up the Euro because they wont get the pound.
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They don't have to nationalise, just collect taxes.
 
What if...?

Scotland votes for independance
Within 2 years runs out of money and no-one will bail them out (their social services consume 200% of income already)

Will they opt for re-incorporation into the United Kingdom

Another question:

If Scotland secedes, will the union jack have to be altered to remove St Andrew's flag?
What will the Welsh say if the Red Cross of England becomes the UK's flag?
 
Cius said:
Idiotic idea. Scotland is unsustainable on its own. Most employment is government based and their private sector is miniscule. They would be bankrupt very soon. If the guy that was leading the independance call was doing so to change that it may be a good idea as Scotland could cut down the big government easier without the English watching over them. Hilariously though their leader actually wants the opposite. He is saying they could prevent the cuts to government jobs easier if they where independant as London is currently trying to cut back on their bloated government sector.

If you want to watch a fun video series check the free youtube movie's called "Brittians trillion pound horror story". It paints the problem very well. Only London and the South is making the main island any money. The rest are 60-70% government jobs and the rest secondary services to those government jobs. They export nothing and are largely insolvent as individual regions. Kinda sad when you think about he industrial super power Northern England was in the past.
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Getting jittery? Are you English? Sounds like "the lady doth protest too much". Why should you care if the Scots mess-up?
 
Packer said:
Getting jittery? Are you English? Sounds like "the lady doth protest too much". Why should you care if the Scots mess-up?
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It's going to cost the new UK tax payer plenty to erect, maintain and patrol a modern version of Hadrians Wall, plus there's a significant percentage of Scots in the armed forces :D
 
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