Self defence units

ghoti said:
A good taser is all you need. Like people are saying, make sure you get an original
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And more than one cartridge if you have more than one assailant, that's the taser's disadvantage over pepperspray
 
marine1 said:
Doesnt matter what you have, if you dont train and dont have the muscle memory, everything is pretty useless
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Agree, it's habit that you need, it must come naturally in a situation.
 
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Definitely get an original unless you're prepared to test it on yourself ;)
 
marine1 said:
Doesnt matter what you have, if you dont train and dont have the muscle memory, everything is pretty useless
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^^^ That.

I see way too many people attend a Krav Maga class or two, or do it for a month, and then think they are sorted. No.
I see the same with the knife, stick, and gun fighting classes as well. If you don't train, don't bother. If you can't commit to learn how to do something right, there is no way you will commit to using anything for of defensive object properly in case of an aggressor assaulting you.

As far as the legality aspect is concerned, I agree 100%, it will land one in a sticky situation. In all honesty though, I know of more people who have been cleared because of lawful shootings than those who have been unjustly prosecuted. But ask yourself, and be honest;

If your life is in mortal danger, and someone is there to safe you, would you rather them have a gun, or a less-than-lethal option?

Now, imagine your family in that situation; don't you think they would want you to be as best equipped as possible to protect their lives, and yours?

I'm not here to try and convince anyone that they must all carry guns around. I found it is impossible to convince an ignorant person to make a good decision, and I've stopped trying to do that a long time ago. Each one to his own.

I for one, I carry a gun and at least one knife with me, day in and day out. That is my choice, and one I'll be sticking with, thank you very much.
 
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So I had a look at those tasers recommended here, and whilst great, I see a couple of flaws with these, compared to a firearm (the lethal vs. non-lethal argument aside).

So it shoot out 2 pins. And then what? You need to reload? And how long does that take, considering all fine-motor skills go out the windows when your stressed? What happens when you have 3 people in your house, because lets be honest, chances are there won't be just one. And what about when you miss?

Shoots 15 yards. what is you misjudge, and the person is too far away? trivial, I know, but still. Off the top of your head, and without thinking about it (because you're not going to be thinking about it under pressure), how far is 15 yards? Can you judge this distance in the dark at night?

It just doesn't seem like a good idea, but again, that's just me. Perhaps I'm the ignorant one :-)
 
The best home defence weapon it a secure perimeter and yard, with community (radio comms) and armed response backup, and a safe inside the house.

In your car its smash and grab window film and keeping your windows only open a small bit and using your airvents/fan if you dont have aircon, awareness, knowing where police stations (SAPS and Metro) are for if you are being followed and leaving space for evasive action at intersections and direct stream pepper spray.
 
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srothman said:
So I had a look at those tasers recommended here, and whilst great, I see a couple of flaws with these, compared to a firearm (the lethal vs. non-lethal argument aside).

So it shoot out 2 pins. And then what? You need to reload? And how long does that take, considering all fine-motor skills go out the windows when your stressed? What happens when you have 3 people in your house, because lets be honest, chances are there won't be just one. And what about when you miss?

Shoots 15 yards. what is you misjudge, and the person is too far away? trivial, I know, but still. Off the top of your head, and without thinking about it (because you're not going to be thinking about it under pressure), how far is 15 yards? Can you judge this distance in the dark at night?

It just doesn't seem like a good idea, but again, that's just me. Perhaps I'm the ignorant one :-)
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+ it needs to pass through clothing (think leather/jeans) and penetrate skin for it to be effective (wont work if the barbs bounce off)

go play paintball or ask a buddy with a handgun to take you to a range and see how well you put 1 round on target.
Then realise that in a shtf scenario neither you or your targets will be stationery......

Tazers are great for subduing someone who has already been brought down. For first line defence? Just like paintball markers they are more likely to escalate a confrontation and piss off your attacker.

Lethal attacks are best countered with lethal weapons.
Handguns are easy to operate - carry 13+ beans in popular calibers and can be easily concealed.

Also realise that real life is nothing like Holywood movies - people dont go down with one shot - not even with the magic .45 round.

In SA most attacks involve multiple attackers so you might need a few rounds per attacker - the desert eagle from a few posts looks cool but is a bugger to shoot never mind follow up shots on target and with only 6 (very expensive rounds) is not a good idea.

A 9mm like a Glock 19 + lots of training would be my suggestion.
 
You also can't forget the mental training. Most people will hold back, even if it cost their lives. One guy I work with openly says he won't carry a weapon, because he is not going to use it.

I really want a Glock 19, but the license is just a PITA. Was at the gun shop, and it just feels perfect for me.

Btw for those that does carry a gun, do get yourself some proper ammo. Something like Speer Gold Dot +P. I see a lot of people that has a gun, but have some practice ammo loaded.

Back on knives, I always carry one of these around my neck. Just for incase.
 
The licensing isn't that much of a hassle lately, and the turn-around times are usually south of 90 days. Still long, yes, but better.

The G19s are great firearms. I myself have a G27 on my hip day and night, and also a Smith & Wesson M&P40c, and I love it. I use my 9mm firearms mostly for sport shooting, .40 cals for carry.
 
Awesome, thats good to know. On my to do list for next year then.

I was actually looking for a Glock 32, but all the gun shops I went to told me that ammo is going to be very hard to find. Same with 10mm, and the guns get pretty bulky. How easy is it to get .40 SW ammo?

One more thing I like about the 9mm Glock is the factory 33 round magazines.
 
srothman said:
The licensing isn't that much of a hassle lately, and the turn-around times are usually south of 90 days. Still long, yes, but better.

The G19s are great firearms. I myself have a G27 on my hip day and night, and also a Smith & Wesson M&P40c, and I love it. I use my 9mm firearms mostly for sport shooting, .40 cals for carry.
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You must be popular at PTA meetings.
 
srothman said:
The licensing isn't that much of a hassle lately, and the turn-around times are usually south of 90 days. Still long, yes, but better.

The G19s are great firearms. I myself have a G27 on my hip day and night, and also a Smith & Wesson M&P40c, and I love it. I use my 9mm firearms mostly for sport shooting, .40 cals for carry.
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Agreed. Licensing thankfully isn't as bad as it was.
The G19 is a bit too small for me I have large hands. I have the 17
And the HK 9mm USP full frame. I use both for sport shooting DSS but the HK for SD
Ammo is cheaper and they are solid firearms.
Also carry good ammo
 
srothman said:
The licensing isn't that much of a hassle lately, and the turn-around times are usually south of 90 days. Still long, yes, but better.

The G19s are great firearms. I myself have a G27 on my hip day and night, and also a Smith & Wesson M&P40c, and I love it. I use my 9mm firearms mostly for sport shooting, .40 cals for carry.
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On the contrary from what I understand licensing rejections seems to be higher and higher of late and for no good reason in many cases.

Only issue I see with the G19 is the price. Otherwise CZ p07 seems like a good alternative. Will finally look into getting myself a FA for SD with the aim of EDC as much as possible.
 
Zenbaas said:
On the contrary from what I understand licensing rejections seems to be higher and higher of late and for no good reason in many cases.

Only issue I see with the G19 is the price. Otherwise CZ p07 seems like a good alternative. Will finally look into getting myself a FA for SD with the aim of EDC as much as possible.
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Disagree even semi auto rifles taking about 6 weeks on sporting license.
But expect things to slow down next year when new ammendments come in. The are going to clamp down from what I have heard
 
*spit* I'm quite concerned about the amendments, but I guess we'll see what sticks and what doesn't once it officially lands.

As for the price of the G19, you can now pick up brand new Gen 4s for around R9000- at some of the dealers. Bloody good price if you ask me!
 
Nuke said:
Awesome, thats good to know. On my to do list for next year then.

I was actually looking for a Glock 32, but all the gun shops I went to told me that ammo is going to be very hard to find. Same with 10mm, and the guns get pretty bulky. How easy is it to get .40 SW ammo?

One more thing I like about the 9mm Glock is the factory 33 round magazines.
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One word: reload!

Initial outlay is about R2500 for press/dies/scale/caliper (hunt the classifieds/gunsite.co.za forum)

Then buy decent range ammo (eg. S&B) and keep cases + contact frontier for bullets and primers (powder you get from gun shops)

Then make friends with someone who knows how to reload so you can learn (dont forget beers for afterwards)

Even with a single stage press one can turn out 200-400 rounds per hour at about 1/3 the cost of new ammo depending on caliber (9 is cheaper than .40)
 
marine1 said:
Disagree even semi auto rifles taking about 6 weeks on sporting license.
But expect things to slow down next year when new ammendments come in. The are going to clamp down from what I have heard
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I can only comment regarding posters comments on gunsite TBH.

@srothman :At that price I'll definitely bite.
 
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