Seriously who is coming up with these software developer interviews?

[Harmonic]

I think with tests it all comes down to what the test is. When I was in the job market I ignored a bunch of companies after receiving BS fizz buzz style tests. Then on the flip side, I had one company pay me to come to their offices and sit with the team for a day. That seemed pretty reasonable to me although it turned out to be one of the worst startups I ever worked for.

I think with the labor market, if you want me to spent hours and hours doing a test, compensate me. Good developers aren't exactly struggling for jobs

 

[Barbarian Conan]

You could dress it however you want but what remains is I will not put up with aptitude tests and unreasonable take home tasks. And no one ever should.

If a company can't figure out how to hire people properly, I doubt there's anything else great about their work culture.

Hiring is hard. I'm not denying that. But how you frame it is you're putting the entire burden of the process on the candidates. That communicates a company thinks they are so great and their job is so good, they would be doing me a favour by hiring me.

You also ignored what I wrote earlier. If I think a company is big enough and will pay me a lot of money, I can hire cheap developers on Firv to do the boring interview task for me. You haven't proven a thing with your unreasonable take home task. There's cases of people outsourcing their entire jobs to cheap Fivr devs.
If me taking a stand against long take home tasks given these circumstances still means nothing to you, then ayi I don't know.

And then you get people like me.
A recruiter just sent me a link to a test and where to send my CV after doing the test. I just did the test to see what kind of tests are out there at the moment.
The recruiter emailed me later and I told him I'm not really interested, I just wanted to take the test.

Anyway, at the previous company we had a quick interview with the hiring manager, then tech test for about an hour, then interview with a couple of team members.

The test has the option to turn on the webcam for periodical photos during the test.

At that company, and the one before that, I still remember the people who bullshitted well enough in the interviews and had us start doing tests in the first place.

 

[zimspy]

And then you get people like me.
A recruiter just sent me a link to a test and where to send my CV after doing the test. I just did the test to see what kind of tests are out there at the moment.
The recruiter emailed me later and I told him I'm not really interested, I just wanted to take the test.

Anyway, at the previous company we had a quick interview with the hiring manager, then tech test for about an hour, then interview with a couple of team members.

The test has the option to turn on the webcam for periodical photos during the test.

At that company, and the one before that, I still remember the people who bullshitted well enough in the interviews and had us start doing tests in the first place.

Yeah for me it's a hard pass on the spyware. If I do do your test and you can't even trust me enough to let me do it without spyware, I'm out.

 

[Barbarian Conan]

Yeah for me it's a hard pass on the spyware. If I do do your test and you can't even trust me enough to let me do it without spyware, I'm out.

just a normal website, nothing to install.

 

[cguy]

You think that is hell on earth!? Go work for Amazon and then we'll speak again. Now that is probably the most toxic environment on earth, making a Uranium mine and Chernobyl look nice. They are constantly recruiting and have a huge staff turnover.

Have you even worked at Amazon? I know plenty of people who have worked there for many years.

 

[cguy]

I always find that amusing. What is a 2-4 year guarantee with a notice period?

There are no notice periods where I work (US) (at least in my industry). If someone gets fired without cause the guarantee has to be paid out.

If a company is doing badly, there's no contract out there that will keep you employed if they can't afford to pay you.

Companies that can offer these kinds of guarantees usually aren’t exactly high risk.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Have you even worked at Amazon? I know plenty of people who have worked there for many years.

I think it really depends on the department/team in AWS.

I know a bunch of AWS-lifers as I like to call them who basically had no other job but AWS and they’ll probably die there.

Then I know quite a few that came and went and they all hated it and I can only think it’s either because they have something to compare it to or those particular teams just sucked.

Incidentally all these folks have worked in entirely different areas so it’s never been possible to correlate much.

 

[lkpat]

There are no notice periods where I work (US) (at least in my industry). If someone gets fired without cause the guarantee has to be paid out.

So if you're made an offer you can't refuse by another firm, you have to refuse?

 

[lkpat]

Companies that can offer these kinds of guarantees usually aren’t exactly high risk.

Enron?
GM?
Chrysler?

 

[cguy]

I think it really depends on the department/team in AWS.

I know a bunch of AWS-lifers as I like to call them who basically had no other job but AWS and they’ll probably die there.

Then I know quite a few that came and went and they all hated it and I can only think it’s either because they have something to compare it to or those particular teams just sucked.

Incidentally all these folks have worked in entirely different areas so it’s never been possible to correlate much.

Yeah. It’s such a big company, that it almost entirely depends on your team and near-immediate management. It’s silly to demonize a company that size.

 

[cguy]

So if you're made an offer you can't refuse, you have to refuse?

There would be clawbacks if you accepted. This depends a lot on whether the guarantee included payout for garden leave (usually does), but the company also can’t fire you or give you notice without paying you out, unless there is cause.

 

[cguy]

Enron?
GM?
Chrysler?

One would be a fool not to take those odds.

 

[Johnatan56]

I also implore people to work against a repo and submit it with all their commits and not just the final one and see how they think and where they got stuck.

If an interview requires me to actually have more than one or two commits, the test is too long imho.

Amazon's test was by far the longest I did, and the entire process just turned me off from finishing it.
Company I am currently at was 3 hours (you could do more or less, I ended up 4 hours), but first had a culture / role interview, where it's made clear what I was going to be working on, what day to day looks like, benefits, etc., then you get sent the tech interview.
Second interview is just going through the test, explain thinking, and then if you have questions and stuff, and right after was offer (which already before the first interview bracket was given, and already said in second interview that top of bracket, etc., so negotiation is a quick process).

South African interviews often tend to follow the American style too much, going FAANG style with hackerrank/trick question coding stuff, a vast majority of businesses don't need people like that, and it's more important to check the entire process of how they think and fit in the company, rather than get them to memorize those questions/answers.

My impression in Europe is that it's a lot more just a discussion in what you've worked on, challenges, and just talk your way through it, company fit is paramount and way of thinking, second interview is near always company showcasing/selling themselves, but my experience is a bit biased as only did senior Europe side.

 

[SauRoNZA]

If an interview requires me to actually have more than one or two commits, the test is too long imho.

Think you misunderstood.

I only have one single deliverable one single time, I meant the history of their own personal commits as they build it out so I can see what they may have gotten stuck on and where they made changes etc.

Again, I’m looking at this from an infrastructure as code perspective, not pure application development.

As for timing, someone who happens to have worked with everything requested in my test who doesn’t need to do any research could probably slap it together in two hours or maybe even less.

I give them a week to put it together because speed isn’t really a concern, but rather understanding and I also fully appreciate people have lives and existing jobs etc and may only find half an hour to an hour on any given day to dedicate time to it.

The exception to that being someone internal who had a chance to be promoted into a role who had never used any of the tools before and was given more time to actively develop the specific skills and also receive some guidance and mentoring along the way, because essentially this becomes a bit of a toolkit for a lot of work in the future.

 

[Johnatan56]

I only have one single deliverable one single time, I meant the history of their own personal commits as they build it out so I can see what they may have gotten stuck on and where they made changes etc.

I said more than one or two commits, I meant one or two commits, I said nothing about deliverables, and expecting it in one day is absurd, you obviously give at least a week (usually on a Thursday/Friday so there's two weekends).

In all of these threads you keep commenting oddly in terms of my replies, picking a piece and ignoring the context around it or just understanding half of it, then reply as though I said something I didn't.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I said more than one or two commits, I meant one or two commits, I said nothing about deliverables, and expecting it in one day is absurd, you obviously give at least a week (usually on a Thursday/Friday so there's two weekends).

The number of commits is entirely dependent on the person and how they work, not something I set so I have no idea what you are stuck on there.

And we give them a full week, which includes a weekend, which I’ve clearly stated above if you cared to read with comprehension.

In all of these threads you keep commenting oddly in terms of my replies, picking a piece and ignoring the context around it or just understanding half of it, then reply as though I said something I didn't.

And in all these threads, in fact in all my communications ever directly with you across two forums that is exactly what I’ve found you to be doing picking up on odd things and taking them entirely out of context and then running with them only half understanding because you didn’t read properly or bothered to try.

It’s become quite clear to me it’s simply never going to work attempting to have a reasonable conversation with you on any topic.

 

[lkpat]

One would be a fool not to take those odds.

Which odds are those?

 

[marhsava]

Unless you're being headhunted, expect a bit of a challenge. The main reason for a test like this is not just to get your capability with coding, but your attitude to a challenge and how you handle pressure. I've had people bail at the sight of a challenge which has made my job as a recruiter easier. The only thing I would say is to put a time frame to it, don't make candidates spend all day on an interview, that's doff. Just say like 1hr30 or something. I don't care if candidates finish, it's really just a hurdle that some dont get past. That helps me weed out the ones I dobt want to start with.

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sigh another recruiter ..

 

[lkpat]

sigh another recruiter ..

Recruiter?
What's your problem with recruiters and perhaps you should define recruiter.

Do I recruit people for my team? Yes, I have for over 20 years now. We're a diverse, multinational company. We all work from home. I've worked from home for 20 odd years. Our team are mostly software developers and data specialists. We develop bespoke software for public and private sector clients. We have worked on projects in around 20 countries. Our team is small - 15-20 employees.

Your turn.

 

[marhsava]

Recruiter?
What's your problem with recruiters and perhaps you should define recruiter.

Do I recruit people for my team? Yes, I have for over 20 years now. We're a diverse, multinational company. We all work from home. I've worked from home for 20 odd years. Our team are mostly software developers and data specialists. We develop bespoke software for public and private sector clients. We have worked on projects in around 20 countries. Our team is small - 15-20 employees.

Your turn.

Okay Karen