Shocking service from OpenWeb

akescpt said:
situations like this is becoming a more common occurence. same MO with most of them.
Click to expand...

With OW or all ISPs?

If all ISPs experience the same thing, then fair enough- it's Telkom.

I've just seen a lot of complaints about this from OW users recently.
 
This is because Telkom is overselling their exchange capacity.

They have upgraded clients to 1 and 2Mbps respectively, but unfortunately failed to upgrade their exchanges at the same time. This cases a MYRIAD of problems. We are working with Telkom to have this addresses, but as you can imagine, this is no easy task.

The facts are, their network is under enormous strain, and their upgrade plan is very slow.

akescpt said:
situations like this is becoming a more common occurence. same MO with most of them.
Click to expand...
 
Please monitor the relevant ISP threads. The pattern is identical.

The majority of users are happy, and a few are having strange issues.

There is not an ISP today that is not affected by the latter.

Budza said:
With OW or all ISPs?

If all ISPs experience the same thing, then fair enough- it's Telkom.

I've just seen a lot of complaints about this from OW users recently.
Click to expand...
 
MrBEEP said:
Please monitor the relevant ISP threads. The pattern is identical.

The majority of users are happy, and a few are having strange issues.

There is not an ISP today that is not affected by the latter.
Click to expand...

OK- good luck with Telkom.

If Plugg starts acting up in the same way, I'll probably be back next time you run a Silver/Gold uncapped special.

Perhaps a more detailed report back to complainants would help them understand the problem. "It's Telkom, ask them to recreate port" doesn't cut it. Transparency is always appreciated.

Likely prevents threads with this title too... ;)
 
a simple tracert should be able to see if it due to congested exchanges.

however I just find it a bit funny that this issue is not occurring on any of the other OP's ISP accounts except for Openweb. If it was congested exchanges or a required port reset would this not also reflect on the other accounts?
 
This does not conclude anything.

It could mean that the route Telkom sends our traffic from the exchange to the DC is congested. They could've misconfigured something.

A common problem is a faulty router, as these cause all sorts of strange issues.

Budza - We are busy compiling an Info Sheet explaining in detail how ADSL works, and where to look and which steps to follow when you experience an issue. We will also explain the Congested exchange issue etc. As this issue is becoming more common, I believe a more detailed explanation is needed.

ISP cash cow said:
a simple tracert should be able to see if it due to congested exchanges.

however I just find it a bit funny that this issue is not occurring on any of the other OP's ISP accounts except for Openweb. If it was congested exchanges or a required port reset would this not also reflect on the other accounts?
Click to expand...
 
MrBEEP said:
Please monitor the relevant ISP threads. The pattern is identical.

The majority of users are happy, and a few are having strange issues.

There is not an ISP today that is not affected by the latter.
Click to expand...

i was referring to across the board. i monitor multiple ISP threads...
 
MrBEEP said:
This does not conclude anything.

It could mean that the route Telkom sends our traffic from the exchange to the DC is congested. They could've misconfigured something.
Click to expand...
So it's not necessarily a congested exchange rather a bottleneck somewhere on Telkom's backhaul links or a backhaul configuration issue?
 
It could be this as well, yes.

We have requested information from Telkom, but they have not been forthcoming.

MickeyD said:
So it's not necessarily a congested exchange rather a bottleneck somewhere on Telkom's backhaul links or a backhaul configuration issue?
Click to expand...
 
you people are pathetic. next month it will be axxess, then it will be afrihost. just like it was mweb, and apparently its currently openweb.

put the torches and pitchforks away, and 99% of the time the ISP are more than happy to assist you resolve the issue. If anything, Oopenweb have been one of the more willing ISP's to resolve issues.

I guess each to their own though. Peace.

edit : Telkom another issue, they can burn! :twisted:
 
OP - I'm pretty sure you'd be covered under the CPA with regards to the product not behaving as expected. Give your credit card company a call and ask for their advice, they should be able to point you in the correction direction.
 
Keoma, without being overly belligerent, that is the most pathetic reply I have ever heard. Where do I start?

Firstly, what advice have I ignored? Please name it. I was asked to perform a traceroute (local and international) when connected to WebAfrica and then when connected to OpenWeb. I did so. I was asked to do a factory reset on the router, I did so. I was asked to switch to Google's DNS servers, I did so. I have sent screenshots of my router config and stats indicating that it is syncing correctly and there is no significant line noise. I have not received any advice other than that, all of which did nothing. Please also understand that I am significantly more technically knowledgable than your staff - I say that not as a braggart, but so that you understand that you are not dealing with a typical home user. On a daily basis I deal with large-scale server infrastructure spread out over 17 data centers in SA, the US and Europe, and I would certainly not have opened a support ticket had I not exhausted every possibility. Keoma, I can't stand it when my support staff have to waste time on nonsensical queries, so out of respect I first try everything to isolate the problem. This included: switching my router out for a spare Asus ADSL2+ router, running smokeping to monitor connectivity and latency, keeping an active munin graph on my laptop to assist with problem solving, running tcpdump to check incoming packets and frames when the connection died, testing on multiple connected devices (including OS X and iOS devices, Windows 7 and 8 devices, Linux devices running Gentoo and Debian, and a FreeBSD box), and finally asking Telkom to reset my port, all BEFORE I logged that initial support query.

Secondly, this thread is proof in itself that there are edge cases in your user base where people are struggling to maintain connectivity. Decrying their complaints as false only speaks to your own insecurity in your infrastructure and your staff. No infrastructure is perfect - we've spent two weeks tracking down a php-fpm disconnect edge case that affected 0.003% of uncached page loads, to assume the fault is on the side of those clients browsing one of our websites is irregular at best, and fundamentally flawed at worst. There is no doubt that there is a problem with your network, even if it affects only a handful of users. Do you now what Occam's Razor is, Keoma? You'd do well to read up on it. It basically states "when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better." Your theory is that the problem is on my end. But given that my line and router and my devices work fine with at least 3 other ISPs (including another IS reseller), I argue that the problem has been isolated to me switching to an OpenWeb connection. Thus, with the same set of assumptions, my theory is simpler. Your theory either has to make extra assumptions (eg. I'm magically changing something else when I change my ADSL authentication settings) or it is a more complex theory, as no additional changes have been made on my side. In short, Occam's Razor coupled with the users in this thread that have seen similar behavior speaks to the problem being on your side, and not on mine or ours.

Thirdly, your comment that your terms and conditions prevent a refund is utterly incredulous. Do you have any idea how unethical that is? How would you feel if I sold you a car that didn't work, but I tricked you into buying it? Would you call me a thief, perhaps? Now how do you think I feel about you and your company? You are proving yourself to be absolute bottom-feeding scum, in front of thousands of consumers, over a measly R499. That is an amount that is (or should be) insignificant to you, and significant to me. Your inability to voluntarily let go of R499 for a service I did not and could not use is appalling - you are an example of everything that is wrong with the service industry in South Africa.

Finally, your refusal to refund me is illegal in terms of sections 55 and 56 of the Consumer Protection Act (No. 68 of 2008). Keoma, you cannot contract out of the stipulations in the CPA, they override your "terms and conditions" that you are clinging to. Section 55 (2) b. says that I have a right to goods that are "are of good quality, in good working order and free of any defects" - the ADSL bandwidth you sold me is none of that. That means that you are entitled to provide what is defined in Section 56: an "Implied warranty of quality." In particular, Section 56 (2) says the following: "Within six months after the delivery of any goods to a consumer, the consumer may return the goods to the supplier, without penalty and at the supplier’s risk and expense, if the goods fail to satisfy the requirements and standards contemplated in section 55, and the supplier must, at the direction of the consumer, either (a) repair or replace the failed, unsafe or defective goods; or (b) refund to the consumer the price paid by the consumer, for the goods." As you have failed to reply to any of my emails, consider this official notice that I want to be refunded per Section 56 of the Consumer Protection Act. Should you continue to refuse to comply with this stipulation please be advised that I will open a formal complaint with the National Consumer Commission, and that I may simultaneously choose to file for a hearing with the National Consumer Tribunal. I have the time, the money, and the energy to ensure you are successfully fined for your unlawful actions, and I will take this to the bitter end if necessary.

Choose your path, Keoma.
 
MrBEEP said:
Budza - We are busy compiling an Info Sheet explaining in detail how ADSL works, and where to look and which steps to follow when you experience an issue. We will also explain the Congested exchange issue etc. As this issue is becoming more common, I believe a more detailed explanation is needed.
Click to expand...

Send Telkom a copy.
 
techead said:
you people are pathetic. next month it will be axxess, then it will be afrihost. just like it was mweb, and apparently its currently openweb.

put the torches and pitchforks away, and 99% of the time the ISP are more than happy to assist you resolve the issue. If anything, Oopenweb have been one of the more willing ISP's to resolve issues.

I guess each to their own though. Peace.

edit : Telkom another issue, they can burn! :twisted:
Click to expand...

What you've missed is that I tried to talk to the ISP first. Even when I eventually gave up I still sent a nice email asking nicely for a refund and stating that I would bare them no ill will and would try them again in future. Only when I became exasperated due to them not responding to my emails did I eventually lay this here out in the open. Trust me - I understand the rule of good service all to well: if you want good service, don't be a dick. But now we're past that point.
 
xrapidx said:
OP - I'm pretty sure you'd be covered under the CPA with regards to the product not behaving as expected. Give your credit card company a call and ask for their advice, they should be able to point you in the correction direction.
Click to expand...

I am indeed. We keep counsel in-house that deals mostly with consumer compliance and trademark issues, so it will cost me nothing to take OpenWeb to the NCC/NCT.
 
Kindly forward legal related queries to [email protected]

As per my previous reply, the refund will not be processed, as the account is not the cause of your issue.

Further support related queries can be forwarded to [email protected]



fluffypony said:
Keoma, without being overly belligerent, that is the most pathetic reply I have ever heard. Where do I start?

Firstly, what advice have I ignored? Please name it. I was asked to perform a traceroute (local and international) when connected to WebAfrica and then when connected to OpenWeb. I did so. I was asked to do a factory reset on the router, I did so. I was asked to switch to Google's DNS servers, I did so. I have sent screenshots of my router config and stats indicating that it is syncing correctly and there is no significant line noise. I have not received any advice other than that, all of which did nothing. Please also understand that I am significantly more technically knowledgable than your staff - I say that not as a braggart, but so that you understand that you are not dealing with a typical home user. On a daily basis I deal with large-scale server infrastructure spread out over 17 data centers in SA, the US and Europe, and I would certainly not have opened a support ticket had I not exhausted every possibility. Keoma, I can't stand it when my support staff have to waste time on nonsensical queries, so out of respect I first try everything to isolate the problem. This included: switching my router out for a spare Asus ADSL2+ router, running smokeping to monitor connectivity and latency, keeping an active munin graph on my laptop to assist with problem solving, running tcpdump to check incoming packets and frames when the connection died, testing on multiple connected devices (including OS X and iOS devices, Windows 7 and 8 devices, Linux devices running Gentoo and Debian, and a FreeBSD box), and finally asking Telkom to reset my port, all BEFORE I logged that initial support query.

Secondly, this thread is proof in itself that there are edge cases in your user base where people are struggling to maintain connectivity. Decrying their complaints as false only speaks to your own insecurity in your infrastructure and your staff. No infrastructure is perfect - we've spent two weeks tracking down a php-fpm disconnect edge case that affected 0.003% of uncached page loads, to assume the fault is on the side of those clients browsing one of our websites is irregular at best, and fundamentally flawed at worst. There is no doubt that there is a problem with your network, even if it affects only a handful of users. Do you now what Occam's Razor is, Keoma? You'd do well to read up on it. It basically states "when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better." Your theory is that the problem is on my end. But given that my line and router and my devices work fine with at least 3 other ISPs (including another IS reseller), I argue that the problem has been isolated to me switching to an OpenWeb connection. Thus, with the same set of assumptions, my theory is simpler. Your theory either has to make extra assumptions (eg. I'm magically changing something else when I change my ADSL authentication settings) or it is a more complex theory, as no additional changes have been made on my side. In short, Occam's Razor coupled with the users in this thread that have seen similar behavior speaks to the problem being on your side, and not on mine or ours.

Thirdly, your comment that your terms and conditions prevent a refund is utterly incredulous. Do you have any idea how unethical that is? How would you feel if I sold you a car that didn't work, but I tricked you into buying it? Would you call me a thief, perhaps? Now how do you think I feel about you and your company? You are proving yourself to be absolute bottom-feeding scum, in front of thousands of consumers, over a measly R499. That is an amount that is (or should be) insignificant to you, and significant to me. Your inability to voluntarily let go of R499 for a service I did not and could not use is appalling - you are an example of everything that is wrong with the service industry in South Africa.

Finally, your refusal to refund me is illegal in terms of sections 55 and 56 of the Consumer Protection Act (No. 68 of 2008). Keoma, you cannot contract out of the stipulations in the CPA, they override your "terms and conditions" that you are clinging to. Section 55 (2) b. says that I have a right to goods that are "are of good quality, in good working order and free of any defects" - the ADSL bandwidth you sold me is none of that. That means that you are entitled to provide what is defined in Section 56: an "Implied warranty of quality." In particular, Section 56 (2) says the following: "Within six months after the delivery of any goods to a consumer, the consumer may return the goods to the supplier, without penalty and at the supplier’s risk and expense, if the goods fail to satisfy the requirements and standards contemplated in section 55, and the supplier must, at the direction of the consumer, either (a) repair or replace the failed, unsafe or defective goods; or (b) refund to the consumer the price paid by the consumer, for the goods." As you have failed to reply to any of my emails, consider this official notice that I want to be refunded per Section 56 of the Consumer Protection Act. Should you continue to refuse to comply with this stipulation please be advised that I will open a formal complaint with the National Consumer Commission, and that I may simultaneously choose to file for a hearing with the National Consumer Tribunal. I have the time, the money, and the energy to ensure you are successfully fined for your unlawful actions, and I will take this to the bitter end if necessary.

Choose your path, Keoma.
Click to expand...
 
I've only ever had exemplary service from Keoma and Openweb but can understand your frustrations. I can also see why it is difficult for Keoma if they cannot replicate the issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X