Shooting at Eastgate

Should be fairly easy to see which metro police were involved... Their vehicles are surely tracked..
 
Pitbull said:
At that rate of fire? Not a chance.
Click to expand...

You have no idea how fast you can fire a gun, do you? Even a handgun? Are you a firearm owner? An untrained person can draw a pistol and empty the 16-round magazine into a target accurately in under 5 seconds.

eg2505 said:
so how is it at every CIT heist one finds fully auto ak-47's used,
hell some even rented out by others.

firearm control is a joke here, criminals just get guns and shoot them wherever they please,
outside a police station, army base, shopping mall, wherever we want...

so good example here, not really bothered there is a army base,
or blocking traffic, or anything, just going nuts and showing how we own these streets.

soldiers/police too afraid (or incapable) to do something.
Click to expand...

You are assuming that the firearms used in heists are legal. Which they're not. You also don't seem the understand how our licensing system works (and I mean this sincerely, not in a condescending way at all). Let me see if I can explain it, because yes, it's a mess.

1. Our firearm control in South Africa is strict, no matter who tells you what. We have a shitload of hoops to jump through to be cleared to possess firearms. However, this control is only applied to legal firearm owners. That's why we, as legal firearm owners, are so dead set against it (because the only people it's hurting is us).

2. In South Africa you don't need a license to own a firearm. Any person can walk off the street into a gunshop and buy a gun off the rack - absolutely any gun they have. HOWEVER, you DO need a licence to possess that firearm. This can be compared to our drivers licences. You don't need a drivers licence to purchase a car, however, you do need a drivers licence in order to drive it. Where it differs from drivers licences though is that when you buy a car, you don't have to register the car on your name to drive it. With a valid licence you can drive your wife's car, or your dad's, or whatever.

3. So, when you buy a firearm, you get issued SAPS-271 and SAPS350(a) forms, if the gun was bought from a dealer. If private, only the SAPS-271 is needed. Now, that firearm will have a serial number and distinguishing marks, stamps and other names, numbers and still stamped into the barrel, receiver, action, etc. etc. This is what is used to license the firearm. So if you apply for a licence for that specific firearm, those markings and numbers are captured at the CFR (central firearms register), and a card with those details are printed as proof that that specific firearm is licensed to you. Now, taking into account the above drivers licence comparison, it's easy to see here that it's an administrative NIGHTMARE to keep this up to date. SAPS and the CFR have timelines that they are legally supposed to adhere to, and it's a mess. Similar to renewing your drivers licence every 5 years, firearm owners have to renew every single licence for every single firearm every 2 to 10 years, depending on the type of licence you have applied for (like sport shooting/hunting, self-defence, restricted firearms, etc.). This is what we are fighting, because it's a mess.

4. South Africa is filled with unlicensed firearms and firearms obtained from illegal sources. This includes fully automatic AK-47 rifles from the border war times. 99% of AK-47's in South Africa that is not legally in a person's hands come from there. Other automatic rifles can come from only two sources:
a. The SANDF, currently a source of firearms for the criminal market, unfortunately. SANDF is careless with their arsenal, but they're not supplying AK-47's. They're supplying R4/5 rifles, a more modern design with a more modern cartridge, but that's beside the point.
b. The SAPS. Other than the SANDF, SAPS is the only entity in South Africa who owns automatic rifles to such an extent, and we all know how well they look after their weapons. They supply the same firearms.

Considering the above, I think it's clear to see that "fully auto ak-47's" are firstly not licensed, so the Sipho corner licence argument is invalid, simply because it's VERY, VERY difficult for a person in South Africa to legally licence a fully auto AK-47 (but it can be done, Cat A collector, for example), and secondly the source of those firearms are not the legal firearm owners in South Africa.

As a final point, I have to say that every single loop that the SAPS and other entities have made us jump through since 2004 (when the Firearms Control Act was signed into law and actually adopted), we have jumped through. We are still jumping through these hoops. This includes the competency training, the background screening, the interviews with family, friends, loved ones, neighbors to get ourselves declared competent to own firearms (which happens long before you ever get a licence), getting and paying large organisations to support our applications like GOSA and SAHGCA, filling in more and more paperwork, including the submission of multi-page motivation documents of WHY firearms are needed in your specific case (where before a 3-line block was filled in on the SAPS), submitting criminal statistics from your area where you work/live, signing forms and more forms that you have never had a criminal record and so on, taking pictures of what you have hunted and intend to hunt with firearms if that's the purpose, taking pictures of your safes that are mounted 10x more securely than ever needed or what's useful, etc. just so SAPS can be happy. We do that so that we can keep our guns, for now at least.

If there are any further questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'm more than willing to explain further :)
 
Toxxyc said:
You have no idea how fast you can fire a gun, do you? Even a handgun? Are you a firearm owner? An untrained person can draw a pistol and empty the 16-round magazine into a target accurately in under 5 seconds.
Click to expand...

I love your assumptions :D

I can shoot a Taurus 9mm in full auto. I have shot probably over 100 000 rounds in my life. I know weapons, and know them extremely well. I say this again, there is no way, that rate of fire in that video between 0:09 and 0:10 is auto fire , tap fire or even double tap fire. Forget it, never!
 
Pitbull said:
I love your assumptions :D

I can shoot a Taurus 9mm in full auto. I have shot probably over 100 000 rounds in my life. I know weapons, and know them extremely well. I say this again, there is no way, that rate of fire in that video between 0:09 and 0:10 is auto fire , tap fire or even double tap fire. Forget it, never!
Click to expand...
You're assuming one firearm :P
 
eg2505 said:
so how is it at every CIT heist one finds fully auto ak-47's used,
hell some even rented out by others.

firearm control is a joke, criminals just get guns illegally and shoot them wherever they please,
Click to expand...
FTFY. ;)
 
very detailed explanation, @Toxxyc

what my argument is is yes to possess a firearm is a nightmare, but again, this is for law abiding citizens.
a Criminal isnt law abiding, and couldn't give a toss on where the gun came from.

so he would pick up a illegal fully auto Kalashnikov without a hesitation and use it
any time or any place he wants.

outside a military base, at a shopping mall,
at a taxi rank, in the townships.
anywhere and everywhere.

what bothers me, is the army and police dont do anything about this,
Id expect them to at least arrest people,
I mean discharging a firearm is still a crime?

this is the main issue I have with such a demonstration,
its like gangsters marking their territory, and showing were not afraid of the police, and can get away with anything we like.
 
ForceFate said:
I've never seen that. Never even seen a military vehicle stop at one of the places along the freeway to buy food.
Click to expand...

ive seen them multiple times at KFC and McDonald's, and even Burger King,
in those khaki polos and hiluxes.

whats is interesting is this is right next to eastgate shopping centre.
 
@eg2505 yeah SAPS is supposed to do something about this and stop it, as well as arrest the guys shooting like that, but alas, SAPS.

SANDF is not allowed to act. Our military is there to protect the country. Only in times of Martial Law (or in very specific circumstances, like the anti-poaching support in the KNP) are they allowed to intervene and act AGAINST South African citizens.
 
Mista_Mobsta said:
It's only easy to see if catching those responsible and holding them to account really fits the JMPD's agenda...
Click to expand...

Well we know its not in the proactive sense...

If the community put substantial pressure, it might have to be on their agenda.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Should be fairly easy to see which metro police were involved... Their vehicles are surely tracked..
Click to expand...
That is the quickest the tracker does not "work" on those specific vehicles.
The minute they need to be accountable all evidence are gone
 
Acid0 said:
That is the quickest the tracker does not "work" on those specific vehicles.
The minute they need to be accountable all evidence are gone
Click to expand...

Of course... I know that in reality nothing will happen to those officers...

BUT we all know that in theory they should all be fired instantly.
 
WATCH | Bullets shot into the air in front of police as 'taxi boss' mourned in Joburg

Metro police spokesperson Chief Superintend Wayne Minnaar said that two JMPD patrol vehicles blocked off traffic lanes at Allum Road and Cumberland Street, near Eastgate, for a cleansing ceremony just before 1pm.

Minnaar confirmed that the ceremony was held by the family of a taxi owner who was killed.

“Other taxi drivers started firing shots into the air. These drivers were attending the cultural ritual. No arrests were made and the JMPD does not condone the shooting,” he said.

SAPS spokesperson Captain Mavela Masondo told TimesLIVE that the family of the deceased man had gone to that specific location to perform rituals following Sunday's shooting.

"They [family] went to perform their rituals in that place and then they started shooting randomly," he said.

He said police officers were not on the scene at the time of the shootings.

A case of discharging a firearm in a public space had been opened
Click to expand...

So Metro bought and paid for by the taxi bosses. Let's see if anything comes of the SAPS's case.
 
So Wayne admits that JMPD police vehicles were used to block off the roads, but its ok... because they don't condone the shooting....
 
Glock26 said:
Suddenly this is "part of their culture".
Click to expand...

yeah, I wait for the day that one or more of these bullets come down and kill someone "important". You know, just the gods blessing them with lead since shooting in the air at a funeral is becoming culture and all..... F!!king idiots. I would laugh



“It is linked to Sunday’s incident. They were out today to ‘collect the spirits of the deceased’. - jirre you cant make this sh!it up!
 
Would any bystanders be able to identify the sound of gunfire vs the sound of a cricket bat hitting a door? How do we know there wasn't a lot of cricket bats hitting doors during that time?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X