Should I pay my E-Toll account?

And you've hit the nail on the head. What gives a private company a right to collect tax? Yet they are clearly doing so.


A toll road, also known as a turnpike or tollway, is a public or private roadway for which a fee (or toll) is assessed for passage. It is a form of road pricing typically implemented to help recuperate the cost of road construction and maintenance, which (on public roads) amounts to a form of taxation.

Are the roads no longer public?
 
the fact that an entity is corporatized does not mean that it ceases to operate as an organ of state and SANRAL very much is an organ of state - as well evidenced by treasury stepping in to fray. SANRAL is NOT PRIVATIZED, they fall into that same dangerous category of evil in terms of governance and so forth as the SABC. Telkom is an interesting one in this respect and almost all of the problem from the fact that government treats it as an SABC and SANRAL.
Of real importance is that SANRAL - unlike a private company - is required to adhere to the PFMA:
http://www.treasury.gov.za/legislat...s/2013-03-15 Public institutions Sch 1-3D.pdf

The question of whether a corporatized entity the performs functions on behalf of government can lawful impose a tax is a nuanced one but there is no authority for that proposition in our law - there is support in other legal systems but it certainly is not a default in English or Roman-Dutch common law (in English law municipal government is accomplished through corporations with a scope of taxation).

A judgment of the AD from 1989 setting forth a basic proposition of law which has not been explicitly amended by statute is pretty much as sound an authority as you'll find. Quite specifically the position in our law concerning underlying toll roads have been that tolls are charged on concessionary roads and the charge goes to private hands - removing the ability to collect the tolls in a tax fashion - and this is strongly the case in the current Act where s27 is worded such that a person who jumps the turnpike (the gantry) is liable for criminal proceedings by the state which would include a fine to the public agency (SANRAL) while the private entry would have to deal with it as a non-tax civil matter to collect their money - they'd have to use "tort" (delict in our law) - ask the hundreds of public utility providers in the US about the drain to the provider that is dealing with turnpike jumping. On the concession highways with toll plazas this is exactly the current case if you drive through the plaza ramming the boom gate you'll be up for damage to property and contravening the Sanral Act you'll end up paying SANRAL a fine and the concession company will have to claim - and prove - damages. Etolls are not prepared in accordance with this very important division and SANRAL have since day one been very guarded about the issue.


So either you are simply a belligerent little tool who is not altogether with it or like House you are spewing FUD straight from SANRALs PR directory with flagrant disregard for the truth - the later is strongly suggested by what can only be described as a curious collection of references.
 
Sinbad said:
And you've hit the nail on the head. What gives a private company a right to collect tax? Yet they are clearly doing so.


A toll road, also known as a turnpike or tollway, is a public or private roadway for which a fee (or toll) is assessed for passage. It is a form of road pricing typically implemented to help recuperate the cost of road construction and maintenance, which (on public roads) amounts to a form of taxation.

Are the roads no longer public?
Click to expand...

ai ai, they are not collecting TAX, they are collecting VAT

Vat. Value added tax (VAT) is an indirect tax levied on most transactions, each and every company, corporation ect ect, that has a certain turnover is required to charge VAT.Tolls is not a direct taxation.

So yes they can charge you, VAT charged isn't illegal...

"The African Charter on Human and People's Rights, Article 12, guarantees that every individual will have the right to freedom of movement within the borders of their own state so long as they abide by the state's laws"

National roads acts allows charging to access for purposes of maintenance, construction and improving of road used, but the roads act also points out that there should be alternative routes available should you which not to make use of tolls roads, and as far as I am aware sanral complies.....
 
So if house is vusi, is this nazi?

And you are ignorant. The requirement for alternate routes quietly disappeared many years ago. Rather don't pretend to be an authority when you are clearly not.
 
Paul Hjul said:
the fact that an entity is corporatized does not mean that it ceases to operate as an organ of state and SANRAL very much is an organ of state - as well evidenced by treasury stepping in to fray. SANRAL is NOT PRIVATIZED, they fall into that same dangerous category of evil in terms of governance and so forth as the SABC. Telkom is an interesting one in this respect and almost all of the problem from the fact that government treats it as an SABC and SANRAL.
Of real importance is that SANRAL - unlike a private company - is required to adhere to the PFMA:
http://www.treasury.gov.za/legislat...s/2013-03-15 Public institutions Sch 1-3D.pdf

The question of whether a corporatized entity the performs functions on behalf of government can lawful impose a tax is a nuanced one but there is no authority for that proposition in our law - there is support in other legal systems but it certainly is not a default in English or Roman-Dutch common law (in English law municipal government is accomplished through corporations with a scope of taxation).

A judgment of the AD from 1989 setting forth a basic proposition of law which has not been explicitly amended by statute is pretty much as sound an authority as you'll find. Quite specifically the position in our law concerning underlying toll roads have been that tolls are charged on concessionary roads and the charge goes to private hands - removing the ability to collect the tolls in a tax fashion - and this is strongly the case in the current Act where s27 is worded such that a person who jumps the turnpike (the gantry) is liable for criminal proceedings by the state which would include a fine to the public agency (SANRAL) while the private entry would have to deal with it as a non-tax civil matter to collect their money - they'd have to use "tort" (delict in our law) - ask the hundreds of public utility providers in the US about the drain to the provider that is dealing with turnpike jumping. On the concession highways with toll plazas this is exactly the current case if you drive through the plaza ramming the boom gate you'll be up for damage to property and contravening the Sanral Act you'll end up paying SANRAL a fine and the concession company will have to claim - and prove - damages. Etolls are not prepared in accordance with this very important division and SANRAL have since day one been very guarded about the issue.


So either you are simply a belligerent little tool who is not altogether with it or like House you are spewing FUD straight from SANRALs PR directory with flagrant disregard for the truth - the later is strongly suggested by what can only be described as a curious collection of references.
Click to expand...

Lol so now you going to spew conspiracy theories, the government is out to get you...

Thanks I proved my point, the rest of the people reading it can make up their own mind.....;) But I love your denial, I reference the actual national roads act ;) On it you will notice on the bottom of the PDF here (which has nothing to do with sanral website
that road act of 1971, sections will be repealed or amended, which makes it irrelevant.
http://www.gautengonline.gov.za/Pub...gency_Limited_and_National_Roads_Act_1998.pdf

So what about the ACSA (aiports company of south africa) and South African Postal Service are they still government organs....

Seriously dude, you got pwned the end....I have given accurate evidence from more than reliable sources and still you btich and bicker, whose trolling who, idiot....thanks for the laugh

Yours truly gansta raper
 
I doubt this upspurge of activity - old registration but a very recent batch of posts - is from a person with an interest in the harassment enforcement approach rather than in the core of SANRAL operations. Somebody working for the VPC or what not who hs recently been given an "information pack"

I love the reference to the African Charter it has such a nice little flair to it
 
wizardofid said:
Lol so now you going to spew conspiracy theories, the government is out to get you...

Thanks I proved my point, the rest of the people reading it can make up their own mind.....;) But I love your denial, I reference the actual national roads act ;) On it you will notice on the bottom of the PDF here (which has nothing to do with sanral website
that road act of 1971, sections will be repealed or amended, which makes it irrelevant.
http://www.gautengonline.gov.za/Pub...gency_Limited_and_National_Roads_Act_1998.pdf

So what about the ACSA (aiports company of south africa) and South African Postal Service are they still government organs....

Seriously dude, you got pwned the end....I have given accurate evidence from more than reliable sources and still you btich and bicker, whose trolling who, idiot....thanks for the laugh

Yours truly gansta raper
Click to expand...
Dude you are seriously needing a lesson in legal interpretation.

ACSA and SANRAL are pretty much identical entities as organs of the government
 
Paul Hjul said:
Dude you are seriously needing a lesson in legal interpretation.

ACSA and SANRAL are pretty much identical entities as organs of the government
Click to expand...

lol, no wait rofl, seriously lol crack my fing skull, I just happened to work for ACSA for over 10 years...in fact we got 13th and 14th salary payments the 14th one being a performance bonus, they are companies in every sense completely unattached from government, government has vested interest in both parties, and have a say in how they operate, because they are a stakeholder.Your making assumptions based on what you think is right, you couldn't be more wrong, will gladly give you my employee number from back then so you can phone the HR, while at it confirm the last post occupied, happen to be a Apron controller (commonly referred to as alpha charlie) proper term is Operations controller. While at it ask them what is their affiliation with the government.


"Airports Company South Africa Limited (ACSA) was formed in 1993 as a public company under the Companies Act of 1973, as amended, and the Airports Company Act of 1993, as amended. Although ACSA is majority owned by the South African Government, through the Department of Transport, the Company is legally and financially autonomous and operates under commercial law."

Plus I ran my own business, as part of my own business, I was running a Retail postal agency....SAPO also a company......

You need to go back to business school.

if you insulating clone accounts, well go right ahead make some accusations, in fact let @Oj0 @hereticangel, @garp from pcformat days, and another couple of 100 members vouch exactly who I am ;)

but enough talking to idiots.....
 
AfricanTech said:
In other news, House appears to have left the building....
Click to expand...
considering the new user falling to making mention of clone accounts (something I quite specifically did not suggest) it might well be a House clone but that is speculating just a little bit.

I doubt House will be away for too long regardless
 
You seem too happy about the whole thing, House. These e-tolls are criminal in design and the public see it that way. It is not the people that stand to lose from lawsuits that Sanral will fear, it is the group without vehicles and less to lose. When they see how the system is affecting them, they will march to the gantries and tear them down. Quite a different prophecy from yours.
 
Sinbad said:
So if house is vusi, is this nazi?

And you are ignorant. The requirement for alternate routes quietly disappeared many years ago. Rather don't pretend to be an authority when you are clearly not.
Click to expand...

Just as the requirements of SABC to transmit free channels!

Some supposedly clever idiots can say what they want, as soon as the Government have a major stake in anything that corporation WILL and ARE controlled by government. We saw that many times with bailouts and many other "manipulations"!!!!!
 
I wonder what my e-toll account is. Must be in the thousands by now. Which i cannot pay.
 
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