Should I pay my E-Toll account?

])ragon_\/oid;11871253 said:
You get something out of a TV license. All an etoll gives you is a piece of paper, a headache, and corruption.
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Which brings me to another interesting thing, Certain debts are prescribed or not at all within a defined period, has the prescription act been altered considering etoll ? It would mean any debt owned would prescribe within 3 years if there has been any additions to the act or clauses that I am aware off ?
 
wizardofid said:
Which brings me to another interesting thing, Certain debts are prescribed or not at all within a defined period, has the prescription act been altered considering etoll ? It would mean any debt owned would prescribe within 3 years if there has been any additions to the act or clauses that I am aware off ?
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Etoll fees are not a debt.
 
wizardofid said:
Which brings me to another interesting thing, Certain debts are prescribed or not at all within a defined period, has the prescription act been altered considering etoll ? It would mean any debt owned would prescribe within 3 years if there has been any additions to the act or clauses that I am aware off ?
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Lol :D

Stu...
 
wizardofid said:
Which brings me to another interesting thing, Certain debts are prescribed or not at all within a defined period, has the prescription act been altered considering etoll ? It would mean any debt owned would prescribe within 3 years if there has been any additions to the act or clauses that I am aware off ?
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if any debt arises it would be debt by taxation so s11(a)(iii) of the Prescription Act (68 of 1969) applies so it would be 30 years, just remember that tax needs to be interpreted strictly as to a liability being created at all.
 
House said:
Awe ma se kind......
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when dealing with scum like you "ma se" is the start of a phrase that should lead to an infraction warning

But on topic: the issue of prescription for toll charges is an interesting factor in the entire premise of raising capital - if you adopt the genuine approach of rendering a user pay charge on open tolled charges that people pay when they are able with the 30 year prescription that can attach against an estate running to insolvency or division by death then there is a huge scope for low risk annuity investment, the reality is that it is shortsightedness and greed.
 
Paul Hjul said:
if any debt arises it would be debt by taxation so s11(a)(iii) of the Prescription Act (68 of 1969) applies so it would be 30 years, just remember that tax needs to be interpreted strictly as to a liability being created at all.
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@sinbad
You are being intentional thick, go forth and google debtor and creditor.

Since when is tolls a taxation ? "It was registered as a public limited company on 19 May 1998" government is a shareholder, it's not collecting tax on roads used on behalf of the government, government shares in profits.Which why there is some thing like a fuel levy.


You are being charged service/usage fees, by registering with sanral your are entering into contract with them not the government, since being registered as company contractual prescription applies....

the following is 30 years
debt secured by mortgage bond
judgment debt
debt for tax
debt owed to the State for profits relating to substances


sorry for you, 3 year prescription applies
Taxes are not used to fund a toll road and therefore reduce the tax obligation of the individual.

http://www.arrivealive.co.za/pages.aspx?i=2731
 
wizardofid said:
@sinbad
You are being intentional thick, go forth and google debtor and creditor.

Since when is tolls a taxation ? "It was registered as a public limited company on 19 May 1998" government is a shareholder, it's not collecting tax on roads used on behalf of the government, government shares in profits.Which why there is some thing like a fuel levy.


You are being charged service/usage fees, by registering with sanral your are entering into contract with them not the government, since being registered as company contractual prescription applies....

the following is 30 years
debt secured by mortgage bond
judgment debt
debt for tax
debt owed to the State for profits relating to substances


sorry for you, 3 year prescription applies
Taxes are not used to fund a toll road and therefore reduce the tax obligation of the individual.

http://www.arrivealive.co.za/pages.aspx?i=2731
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You can't go to jail for non payment of debt. You can go to jail for non payment of tolls. Therefore tolls are not debt. They are a tax.
 
the vast majority of South African's do not register with SANRAL and SANRAL is depending on s27 of the Sanral Act to create an obligation to pay. e-Tolls for everybody who refuses to become a SANRAL "customer" is a tax and consequently the creation of liability is going to be a headache for SANRAL - check in on the legal opinions on this problem that underlie the review applications and so on.
 
Paul Hjul said:
the vast majority of South African's do not register with SANRAL and SANRAL is depending on s27 of the Sanral Act to create an obligation to pay. e-Tolls for everybody who refuses to become a SANRAL "customer" is a tax and consequently the creation of liability is going to be a headache for SANRAL - check in on the legal opinions on this problem that underlie the review applications and so on.
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Still not a direct taxation, for example tax on salary or profits, it's VAT that your paying on top of sanral's fees, you fail to grasp the difference between the two....and I read S27 of the act and clearly states V to the mofo A to the mother T.

@sinbad
Youre still thick, regardless whether it's tax or contractual, between two family member for god sake a chappie from a corner shop your still customer/client/debtor and who ever gets the money be it the fing man in the moon or the non governmental galactic pope the 3rd is still the creditor, regardless of criminal prosecution.

SARS is a creditor and you their little D.

Directly from the sars website( how more credible do you want ?)

"If you are not in agreement with your tax debt, you may lodge a dispute."

"Interest will accrue on any unpaid debt"
http://www.sars.gov.za/ClientSegments/Individuals/Taxpayer/Pages/Owing-SARS-money.aspx


SAME with regard to etoll
https://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/index.php?gort_xml+template~~menu/main~~L1_11838

"The Violations Processing Centre (VPC) is the debt collection division within SANRAL responsible for the collection and processing of overdue e-toll transactions for non-registered and registered e-toll Account Holders."

@Paul Hjul
Your on the same path of being called thick, sanral is company and is not a part of the transport department is not part of the government any more, sanral is exactly LIKE ACSA where airport tax is collected and charged VAT on certain services only difference is the government isn't the only shareholder, I should know I worked for them for over 10 years , there is no such thing as road tax in south africa. As a company earning millions of rands they are required to charge you VAT..HUGE MOFO difference.

clearly you have no idea what the hell you are talking about


Infact in black and white
http://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/app/...t/documents/37038_00887_19-11_TransE-Toll.pdf

"The tariffs include value-added tax (VAT) as provided for in the Value- Added Tax Act, 1991
(Act No. 89 of 1991)."
 
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dude going all gangster rapper isn't going to make your argument any more sound. Provide authorities - outside of propaganda from SANRAL or House - argue coherently and give a definition of tax on which you base you case.

Otherwise you just look stupid

In any event the judicial authorities applicable support the contention - see:
Public Carriers Association and Others v Toll Road Concessionaries (Pty) Ltd. and Others (323/89) [1989] ZASCA 164 (30 November 1989)
"A toll is a tax paid for the use of a public road."

Or take a look at just about any legal dictionary you can get your hands on, or any economics definition you can find
(and there is a major difference between a tax in law and in economics - etolls are a tax by either standard)
 
Paul Hjul said:
dude going all gangster rapper isn't going to make your argument any more sound. Provide authorities - outside of propaganda from SANRAL or House - argue coherently and give a definition of tax on which you base you case.

Otherwise you just look stupid

In any event the judicial authorities applicable support the contention - see:
Public Carriers Association and Others v Toll Road Concessionaries (Pty) Ltd. and Others (323/89) [1989] ZASCA 164 (30 November 1989)
"A toll is a tax paid for the use of a public road."

Or take a look at just about any legal dictionary you can get your hands on, or any economics definition you can find
(and there is a major difference between a tax in law and in economics - etolls are a tax by either standard)
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Dude, seriously? case law from 1989 ? SERIOUSLY.

In 1989 it WAS governmental , as much as ACSA was a state organ back then. It is was registered as a Public Limited COMPANY, which also coincidentally a new national roads ACT of 1998 was brought in to replace the old ACT.Which would make any case law irrelevant, as it's no longer applicable and up to date.

I dare you to look up the LATEST ACT (not a document from 1902, the latest national roads act), and point out where it mentions "toll is a tax payed to use the road." Kindly use the relevant up to date national roads act. Since there are no governmental organs, running ANY tolls in South Africa, there is no such thing as road tax, only a fuel levy.

Otherwise you just look stupid.

You were saying dumbass

Yours truly gansta rapper
 
Sinbad said:
Just wow.
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Yeah ^

"A toll is a tax paid for the use of a public road."

Been that since Roman times, and earlier, although the Romans built the first decent roads, and will also be so millenniums into the future.
 
Just because something is a law does not make it right. R135 to drive to Pretoria and back is not right. There is no way that level of extortion is sustainable, morally or economically.

House and the rest can take their nanny establishment attitude and shove it where the sun doesn't shine if they think the citizens of Gauteng will accept paying R135 for a round trip to Pretoria from Joburg.

Understand this now. WE WILL NOT COMPLY.
 
Jola said:
Yeah ^

"A toll is a tax paid for the use of a public road."

Been that since Roman times, and earlier, although the Romans built the first decent roads, and will also be so millenniums into the future.
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Fine !

http://www.gautengonline.gov.za/Pub...gency_Limited_and_National_Roads_Act_1998.pdf

PIc_1.jpg


here is the proof that they are a company, notice the company registration number

Untitled.jpg



Clear indication they have privatized

pic_2.jpg



Still no mention the levy/fee/toll being A "TAX" although they can arrest you for evading toll fee or refusing to pay, and might also be liable to a CIVIL penalty, this is specific to this ACT.

act_makes_provision_to_arrest_people.jpg



Very clear TAX collected from fuel levies are used by sanral
Pic_4.jpg



Levy definition
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/levy
levy (ˈlɛvɪ)
vb (tr) , levies, levying or levied
1. (Economics) to impose and collect (a tax, tariff, fine, etc)



Here it is black and white they are company, their levy is a tariff and not a TAX, however they charge you VAT, given some time I can probably get the VAT number as well that you can go confirm on SARS efiling.


Clearly they are a company, they are a private entity and operate as such, it would be illegal for them to levy TAX, they can however levy VAT. Big difference.

This means with it being a Company, they charge a levy that includes VAT, which is payable to the government.

proof_they_are_a_company.jpg



This means contractual prescription would apply and not TAX prescription, and only if sanral doesn't manage to collect the "levy", or prosecute or get a judgement against you.......


However there is a problem they can still prosecute you for a period of 20 years after which it will lapse. the only exceptions is

a) murder;

b) treason committed when the Republic is in a state of war;

c) robbery, if aggravating circumstances were present;

d) kidnapping;

e) child-stealing;

f) rape;
or

g) the
crime of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes
 
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