Should vaping be treated as smoking?

[AxField]

Vapers are assholes in the same way the BMW drivers are assholes in my experience One of the reasons I stopped vaping was because of my girlfriend falling pregnant with our son, I still very much enjoy being an ******* from time to time.

Then I’m screwed. I’m a vaper and a bmw driver. Eish. Being a heavy smoker of two packs a day, I also bought into the fantasy that vaping will lead to me quitting. Well, a year later I haven’t touched a ciggy, but I’m still too addicted to give up my vape. I break out in cold sweat when I run low on coils or juice

 

[D3v8]

From a medical point of view there is very little difference. They should be regulated just like any tobacco product. The belief that vaping is safer, is a myth, created to lull users into a false sense of security.

From a medical point of view, THERE IS A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE. your poor patients, if my doctor was as clueless as you, I would rather go to the vet....

 

[Lars Vloging]

From a medical point of view there is very little difference. They should be regulated just like any tobacco product. The belief that vaping is safer, is a myth, created to lull users into a false sense of security.

Please explain to me as a non doctor, how is vaping the same as smoking?

Not only does the combustion or cigarettes create thousands of chemicals, it's also radioactive?

Radioactivity in Tobacco | US EPA

Tobacco farmers use fertilizers that contain a naturally-occurring radionuclide, radium, to help crops grow. Cigarettes made from this tobacco still contain these radioactive elements. These elements settle in people’s lungs when they smoke cigarettes.

www.epa.gov

Cigarette Smoking and Radiation

Learn more about how tobacco in cigarettes contains radioactive materials. Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

www.cdc.gov

The Underrated Effects of Radiation from Cigarette Smoking

Its been well documented to be the case.

So, please tell me how the hell is that the same???

The only time vaping is a major issue is when people buy ejuice that is not made from PG, VG mix.

 

[Craig_]

Then I’m screwed. I’m a vaper and a bmw driver. Eish. Being a heavy smoker of two packs a day, I also bought into the fantasy that vaping will lead to me quitting. Well, a year later I haven’t touched a ciggy, but I’m still too addicted to give up my vape. I break out in cold sweat when I run low on coils or juice

From a medical point of view, THERE IS A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE. your poor patients, if my doctor was as clueless as you, I would rather go to the vet....

If vaping is so harmless how is it possible for the poster above you to be addicted to it? Maybe stop being a condescending arsewipe and start replying with facts to back up your statements.

 

[Grouter]

Perhaps we should just point @yatiya at a peer-reviewed study by his fellow doctors:

Nicotine without smoke: Tobacco harm reduction

www.rcplondon.ac.uk

Or, if that's too long for him to read, a 3-minute video may suffice:

 

[AxField]

If vaping is so harmless how is it possible for the poster above you to be addicted to it? Maybe stop being a condescending arsewipe and start replying with facts to back up your statements.

Hah, didn't intend for my post to burn someone. My personal, subjective, mostly ignorant opinion is that it's better to not smoke/vape at all. That being said, personally, I feel better vaping compared to smoking. Hardly definitive of course...

 

[D3v8]

If vaping is so harmless how is it possible for the poster above you to be addicted to it? Maybe stop being a condescending arsewipe and start replying with facts to back up your statements.

I attached the study from the Royal College of Physicians earlier in the thread already. I've shared the facts. Facts corroborated by MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS and one of the top medical research institutes in THE WORLD. Please tell me how that makes me a condescending "aresewipe" if I question a self proclaimed doctor (no proof of credentials), that has no interest in keeping updated with medical journals and findings. If your mechanic last did a course on a beetle, would you trust him to service your brand new Audi? You need to stay updated within your field.

 

[Domoreto]

Vaping is same as smoking. Les damage to the smoker (no tar in the lungs) but nicotine has same effect on the bystanders.

 

[D3v8]

Vaping is same as smoking. Les damage to the smoker (no tar in the lungs) but nicotine has same effect on the bystanders.

Please go and read the study completed by the Royal College of Physicians, the is little to no effect on the people around you. It dissipates very quickly. Please understand that I do not condone vapers walking around in public blasting vapour in everybody's faces. That's just being an *******. But for the love of science and medical advances, please please please educated yourselves on a topic before just dishing out comments willy-nilly on a public forum.

 

[isie]

Please go and read the study completed by the Royal College of Physicians, the is little to no effect on the people around you. It dissipates very quickly. Please understand that I do not condone vapers walking around in public blasting vapour in everybody's faces. That's just being an *******. But for the love of science and medical advances, please please please educated yourselves on a topic before just dishing out comments willy-nilly on a public forum.

Science says different

The airborne markers were statistically higher in conventional cigarette homes than in e-cigarettes homes (5.7 times higher). However, concentrations of both biomarkers among non-smokers exposed to conventional cigarettes and e-cigarettes’ vapour were statistically similar (only 2 and 1.4 times higher, respectively). The levels of airborne nicotine and cotinine concentrations in the homes with e-cigarette users were higher than control homes (differences statistically significant). Our results show that non-smokers passively exposed to e-cigarettes absorb nicotine.

 

[Raithlin]

That's all great what you say, and you'd definitely know more than most of us on this matter. Just one things you said in your last sentence; Most 'vapers' are not using it to quit their nicotine addiction (cos let's face it, that's why people become addicted to smoking in the first place). They are replacing one addiction, for another one, because you'd need to be a complete idiot to just buy nic-less fluid just so you could blow out cherry-scented whale farts all day. Bottom line: vaping is used as a transport mechanism for a drug (cbd, thc, nicotine). This needs to be controlled. I don't want to breathe in second-hand pineapple-nicotine-fart smoke while I'm walking out of the mall, or trying to enjoy a meal.
And let's not even to begin how dangerous this has become for children. It's literally plugging them into this addictive cycle earlier than ever. You had a shop, tell us about the cherry, grape, fruity flavours. Turning addiction into a sweet. It's abhorrent. It needs to be regulated heavily as it's out of hand in a big way.

3 points raised here, and I want to address them inidividually.

1: vaping is a gateway to nicotine addiction (paraphrased) - it would seem that way, but experience has shown (both personal and watching customers) that somehow, without all the other addictive ingredients one finds in cigarettes, people naturally wean themselves off of nicotine. Not everyone, mind you, but most people. My wife (my own success story, so firgive me for mentioning her constantly) started on 12mg nicotine, and within 3 months had dropped down to 6mg - the nic strength had become too strong for her. To this day she still vapes for the calming benefits of nicotine, but she is able to (and does) go without a vape for days. That never happened when she was smoking. I personally vape 0mg nicotine, though 2 or 3mg nicotine juices are more enjoyable - because the vendors develop it with nicotine (a story for another time) - but I will vpae a 0mg just for the flavor. I must be an idiot by your reckoning.

2: you have a right to clean air. No arguments there. See my previous posts on this point.

3: Children are being targeted. We have had this very discussion within the industry itself, and most self-respecting stores refuse to sell to minors (<18). We would not even sell to an 18 year old in a school uniform, to be honest. However, like the 5% of vapers that don't care and blow clouds in public, there are always going to be stores that sell to minors. Same goes for cigarettes, so no surprise there. As for flavours - that is pert of the reason I enjoy vaping (with and without nicotine) - I get to enjoy flavours I would otherwise not enjoy. I'd rather vape a sweet flavour than ingest the sugar-filled alternative. That's my choice, and I have the right to choose, as do you - whatever choice that is. I won't come into your house and crap you out, nor do I expect you to arrive at my doorstep. That's my point, really. I can do what I wish in the privacy of my own home. Public areas are shared and should be kept clean for all.

 

[Raithlin]

Science says different

2014 study that has been debunked.

Does Vaping Affect Indoor Air Quality? | Is Vaping Safe Indoors?

Learn how vaping effects your home's indoor air quality. If you're looking to improve your home's air conditioning quality, call A+ for AC services.

aplusairconditioning.com

The Journal of Exposure Science & Environmental Epidemiology studied the particles in the air at a 2017 vaping convention in Maryland. It concluded that, in large quantities, vaping does result in a significant amount of air pollutants.


However, the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) also conducted a study to test the indoor air quality in places where people vape. Their conclusion is that exposure of vaping chemicals to bystanders are below regulatory standards used for workplaces or general indoor air quality.


A third study, conducted by environmentalists, titled Comparison of the Effects of E-Cigarette Vapor and Cigarette Smoke on Indoor Air Quality concluded that vaping results in a minute exposure of chemicals that poses no risk to human health.


When looking at the results of these studies, it appears that having a person vaping nearby may not cause any issues, while attending a place with a high concentration of vapers would expose people to poor air quality.

 

[D3v8]

Science says different

Did you take the time to read the report from the RCoP or are you just going to throw US Tobacco industry backed propaganda at me? The political influence and monetary contributions by the US Tobacco industry is no secret. You can take all of their so called "studies" with a 50kg bag of salt.

 

[Raithlin]

If vaping is so harmless how is it possible for the poster above you to be addicted to it? Maybe stop being a condescending arsewipe and start replying with facts to back up your statements.

I'm addicted to caffeine in coffee. I literally have 3-5 cups a day. Does that make coffee dangerous?

 

[Raithlin]

I'm going to leave this here: Cancer Research UK - E-cigarette safety page

It contains many links to actual studies that give a well reasoned argument for vaping when compared to smoking. It's important to make that distinction.

Not vaping > vaping > smoking.

 

[kronoSX]

i been vaping for 2 years now,

Vaping is worse than smoking, at least with smokers the cloud of smoke is smaller, vaping makes these massive clouds that you can't as easily avoid.

actually its wate in the air mixed with a tiny fraction of pollution.less that what a petrol car do when starting up.been vaping for 2 years,i feel..cough cough..mmm fine

 

[Raithlin]

i been vaping for 2 years now,

actually its wate in the air mixed with a tiny fraction of pollution.less that what a petrol car do when starting up.been vaping for 2 years,i feel..cough cough..mmm fine

Actually, I've been less sick since I started vaping than before. I don't even suffer from the flu these days. Weird, but true.

 

[Sinbad]

Actually, I've been less sick since I started vaping than before. I don't even suffer from the flu these days. Weird, but true.

Not even coronaviruses can survive the vape poisons!


On a similar note though... if you look at the size of those cloud things that the man-bun-wearers emit, and consider that each of those particles could contain viruses, it explains how the thing spreads so quickly indoors.

 

[Bunta]

i smoked cigarettes for 28 years and then vaped for 4 years
Smokers/Vapers don't bother me the slightest

*Forum Fist Bump

Also Smoked for 28 years. Then when Twisp first came out in the V&A, my brother tricked me into buying the twin pack, so he took one and I took the other. The Juice was tobacco flavour and well, honestly, tasted much like the cigg I was smoking at that time. I stopped Smoking Ciggs for 6 months that year. But alas, at a braai with Friends, lit a Ciggie and poof, the Twisp went into a drawer, never to be used again.

This year, i refused to pay black market prices for ciggs, and while I had a few cartons left, I knew I had to stretch the supply. So I got a Vape. It was gradual, but I'm off Cigg's completely for 3 months.

Even got myself a DIY kit and am now making my own juice, no unicorn fart flavours. Ankara Tobacco, RY04 and on the odd occasion some Cookie sweetner.
Still have most of my friends smoking around me, and it doesnt bother me a bit. never thought the day would come.

 

[Bunta]

I am speaking as an ex-smoker of more than 30 years.

1) Smoking tobacco products of any kind in 2020, full well knowing what they do to you and others is nothing short of idiotic. Enough said about that. Yes, it is your personal choice to be an idiot. But you might want to consider the moral question of that harm extending beyond yourself. For example, kids sitting without a parent due to their chosen idiocy. And the financial costs you encumber all of the rest of us with when you go creeping to the hospital for help with your emphysema.

2) Vaping is the one thing that got me to quit. Not the corner store crap. A MTL device (not the ones those little w@nkers use to blow big clouds of smoke) and the strongest nicotine percentage liquid you can get, usually about 16%. Otherwise you will just keep going back to the ciggies. And work your way down to lower % nicotine liquids over 3 months. Then chuck that vape in the bin where it belongs.

3) These DTL (big vapor cloud w@nker boxes) devices should be banned. They are killing people, the facts are out. They are every bit as lethal as an Elcano.

Interesting!
Im sticking to MTL. 10mg Nic and 12%-20% flavour. I just found this to be the perfect blend for me.