Should vaping be treated as smoking?

[Craig_]

Please go and read the study completed by the Royal College of Physicians, the is little to no effect on the people around you. It dissipates very quickly. Please understand that I do not condone vapers walking around in public blasting vapour in everybody's faces. That's just being an *******. But for the love of science and medical advances, please please please educated yourselves on a topic before just dishing out comments willy-nilly on a public forum.

Yeah, I don't care much for the subject other than not wanting to be exposed to it. I have asthma and walking behind a fool last week blowing big clouds of smoke on the pavement meant I needed to use my inhaler. That's an effect that wasn't necessary if said man bunned lady boy just kept his smokes to himself.

I'm addicted to caffeine in coffee. I literally have 3-5 cups a day. Does that make coffee dangerous?

You drinking coffee doesn't bother me as it doesn't affect me, so that's a silly analogy.

 

[Raithlin]

Yeah, I don't care much for the subject other than not wanting to be exposed to it. I have asthma and walking behind a fool last week blowing big clouds of smoke on the pavement meant I needed to use my inhaler. That's an effect that wasn't necessary if said man bunned lady boy just kept his smokes to himself.

Fair point, no arguments there.

You drinking coffee doesn't bother me as it doesn't affect me, so that's a silly analogy.

My vaping doesn't bother you either. No, I don't have a man bun.

 

[Craig_]

Fair point, no arguments there.
My vaping doesn't bother you either. No, I don't have a man bun.

It does bother others when you spew stuff into their surroundings. You wouldn't like it if I were to spit in your face, just like I don't like having to walk threw smoke bellowing from a man bunned lady boys lungs.

Maybe it's just those kinds that do this kind of thing and not normal people, because it's always the same look on the fools that does this.

 

[Raithlin]

It does bother others when you spew stuff into their surroundings. You wouldn't like it if I were to spit in your face, just like I don't like having to walk threw smoke bellowing from a man bunned lady boys lungs.

Maybe it's just those kinds that do this kind of thing and not normal people, because it's always the same look on the fools that does this.

Dude, I get that you don't want vapor in your surroundings. I have agreed that public places should be vape free several times already. I vape at home, hence my snide comment. I absolutely respect your space.

 

[WhiteRaven]

you would need to eat like 20 Kg of tomatoes in one go to get an equivalent amount of Nicotine that you would from 1 cigarette.
I'm sure Nicotine is the last of your worries if are eating that many tomatoes though

The point is the focus on nicotine is beyond stupid if you start looking at the harmful chemicals in cigarettes VS vaping...

 

[D3v8]

Yeah, I don't care much for the subject other than not wanting to be exposed to it. I have asthma and walking behind a fool last week blowing big clouds of smoke on the pavement meant I needed to use my inhaler. That's an effect that wasn't necessary if said man bunned lady boy just kept his smokes to himself.




You drinking coffee doesn't bother me as it doesn't affect me, so that's a silly analogy.

You don't care for the subject enough to read up on the actual science behind it, but enough about it to bad mouth something you know very little about. Like the fact that your asthma inhaler uses the same propylene glycol that is used in E-liquid.

 

[WhiteRaven]

I think that the massive point that is being missed is that it is a proven fact that vaping is much less harmful than smoking, (research is out there, you can find it if you want to know more) Yes you don't like the clouds, I get that but hell man if I wasn't vaping strawberry ice-cream juice it would be bellows of secondary cigarette smoke, which again is more harmful than the vapour from a vape.

If someone is being inconsiderate around you because of their habit, that is about an individual, the vape didn't tell them to be rude! The problem is, harping on things like this will give the Government ammo to hit the vaping industry hard and in doing that damage the hard work the industry has been doing in moving smokers to vapers and most of them, eventually to zero nic and then nothing.

Yes we made the choice to smoke but a less harmful product can save many many lives...

 

[isie]

Did you take the time to read the report from the RCoP or are you just going to throw US Tobacco industry backed propaganda at me? The political influence and monetary contributions by the US Tobacco industry is no secret. You can take all of their so called "studies" with a 50kg bag of salt.

So any study that says Vaping is bad even if it includes statements that tobacco products are worse must be funded by Big Tobacco?

The point is the focus on nicotine is beyond stupid if you start looking at the harmful chemicals in cigarettes VS vaping...

You brought up Nicotine, I just pointed out its so low in the items you mentioned.
what about every other ingredient in it?

Do you know the ingredient of every single variation of E cigarette liquid out there?
Can you guarantee that every person vaping whatever they are using has no effect on those around them?

Perceptions of Harm to Children Exposed to Secondhand Aerosol From Electronic Vapor Products, Styles Survey, 2015

www.cdc.gov

Secondhand Vape Exposure: Effects, Who's at Risk, and More

Secondhand vaping might not seem like a big deal, but it can pose health risks to those around you.

www.healthline.com

Secondhand Vape Exposure: Effects, Who's at Risk, and More

Secondhand vaping might not seem like a big deal, but it can pose health risks to those around you.

www.healthline.com

 

[kronoSX]

i usually smoke like 20 cigs a day due to stress, and my vape uses nicotine salts, the strongest on the market,and yes i do smoke less now.

 

[isie]

I think that the massive point that is being missed is that it is a proven fact that vaping is much less harmful than smoking, (research is out there, you can find it if you want to know more) Yes you don't like the clouds, I get that but hell man if I wasn't vaping strawberry ice-cream juice it would be bellows of secondary cigarette smoke, which again is more harmful than the vapour from a vape.

THat's like saying i'll take a bullet to the thigh rather than a bullet to the Knee

If someone is being inconsiderate around you because of their habit, that is about an individual, the vape didn't tell them to be rude! The problem is, harping on things like this will give the Government ammo to hit the vaping industry hard and in doing that damage the hard work the industry has been doing in moving smokers to vapers and most of them, eventually to zero nic and then nothing.

If people were considerate and not smoke in public infront of others then this would not be an issue.
but they not so what do we do.

Yes we made the choice to smoke but a less harmful product can save many many lives...

Again vaping in front of others isn't saving their lives , you causing issues for them - can you guarantee it has no effect?
No less harmful is still harmful

 

[WhiteRaven]

THat's like saying i'll take a bullet to the thigh rather than a bullet to the Knee

and that's like saying smoking and vaping are the same thing... which they are not...

 

[isie]

and that's like saying smoking and vaping are the same thing... which they are not...

They contain harmful chemicals so, To a non vaper / non smoker they the same thing -You want to harm yourself knock yourself out - whatever the level. I Don't want that **** in my lungs.


Do you vape in front of your children or any children?

 

[WhiteRaven]

They contain harmful chemicals so, To a non vaper / non smoker they the same thing -You want to harm yourself knock yourself out - whatever the level. I Don't want that **** in my lungs

What harmful chemicals, everything that is used to create e-liquid can be found in the food you eat..

Also... https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/he...fessionals/e-cigarette-statement#keymessages0

• Based on the evidence to date, vaping is a lot less harmful alternative to smoking tobacco
• Evidence so far that e-cigarettes could be a gateway to smoking in the UK is not convincing
• Existing evidence suggests that exhaled vapour is not harmful to others, in contrast to second hand smoke which is
• Evidence suggests that e-cigarettes are more effective for smoking cessation compared to both over-the-counter nicotine replacement therapy, and quitting unaided.
• Users need to stop smoking and switch completely to e-cigarettes to get the reduced exposure to key toxicants from cigarettes.

 

[D3v8]

What harmful chemicals, everything that is used to create e-liquid can be found in the food you eat..

Also... https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/he...fessionals/e-cigarette-statement#keymessages0

• Based on the evidence to date, vaping is a lot less harmful alternative to smoking tobacco
• Evidence so far that e-cigarettes could be a gateway to smoking in the UK is not convincing
• Existing evidence suggests that exhaled vapour is not harmful to others, in contrast to second hand smoke which is
• Evidence suggests that e-cigarettes are more effective for smoking cessation compared to both over-the-counter nicotine replacement therapy, and quitting unaided.
• Users need to stop smoking and switch completely to e-cigarettes to get the reduced exposure to key toxicants from cigarettes.

Don't waste your time. Looks like we have a professional keyboard warrior on our hands. People like this will never be convinced by anything less then their own opinions and beliefs. The fact of the matter is, the UK as a nation has moved to promoting vaping as the best alternative to smoking and the best smoking cessation tool. A entire country not reliant on Tobacco industry money has made a cognitive and well researched decision. Vape stores are even available in a lot of hospitals over there and vapes / e-liquid can be bought at pharmacies. An entire nation backs the initiative, with a few other countries not far behind them (New Zealand comes to mind as the next big mover in the Vaping direction), but people like them "will" not be swayed by such "arbitrary" "anecdotal" evidence as that. You are wasting your data here. these people aren't looking to be convinced, they are listening to respond, not listening to learn. Vape on and continue on your happy journey.

 

[Lars Vloging]

You know,

It’s always so bloody easy for non-smokers to condemn and ostracize smokers.

Clearly the “Gums” and the “Patches” or the “Pills” only work for a very small percentage of people who genuinely want to quit the nasty habit.

YES, we know that you hate smoking. YES, we know its not good for us.

If you never smoked, you cannot even phantom what it feels like to go off cigarettes cold turkey.

And if your rotten attitudes toward smoking worked to help people quit, the no one would be smoking. The truth is, IT DOES NOT WORK. You are only causing people distress.

The withdrawal is intense, and I’m sorry, but your judgemental and condescending tones does nothing.

Heavens forbid if we started pointing the finger back at those arseholes and start digging into your personality and start asking what are you doing that’s slowly killing them!

 

[isie]

What harmful chemicals, everything that is used to create e-liquid can be found in the food you eat..

Also... https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/he...fessionals/e-cigarette-statement#keymessages0

• Based on the evidence to date, vaping is a lot less harmful alternative to smoking tobacco
• Evidence so far that e-cigarettes could be a gateway to smoking in the UK is not convincing
• Existing evidence suggests that exhaled vapour is not harmful to others, in contrast to second hand smoke which is
• Evidence suggests that e-cigarettes are more effective for smoking cessation compared to both over-the-counter nicotine replacement therapy, and quitting unaided.
• Users need to stop smoking and switch completely to e-cigarettes to get the reduced exposure to key toxicants from cigarettes.

Chemicals such as:

What researchers do know is that these toxic chemicals and metals have all been found in e-cigarettes:

• Nicotine – a highly addictive substance that negatively affects adolescent brain development
• Propylene glycol – a common additive in food; also used to make things like antifreeze, paint solvent, and artificial smoke in fog machines
• Carcinogens- chemicals known to cause cancer, including acetaldehyde and formaldehyde
• Acrolein – a herbicide primarily used to kill weeds, can cause irreversible lung damage
• Diacetyl – a chemical linked to a lung disease called bronchiolitis obliterans aka "popcorn lung"
• Diethylene glycol – a toxic chemical used in antifreeze that is linked to lung disease
• Heavy metals such as nickel, tin, lead
• Cadmium – a toxic metal found in traditional cigarettes that causes breathing problems and disease
• Benzene – a volatile organic compound (VOC) found in car exhaust
• Ultrafine particles that can be inhaled deep into the lungs

Also I noticed you ignored my question
Do you vape in front of your children or any children?

Don't waste your time. Looks like we have a professional keyboard warrior on our hands. People like this will never be convinced by anything less then their own opinions and beliefs. The fact of the matter is, the UK as a nation has moved to promoting vaping as the best alternative to smoking and the best smoking cessation tool. A entire country not reliant on Tobacco industry money has made a cognitive and well researched decision. Vape stores are even available in a lot of hospitals over there and vapes / e-liquid can be bought at pharmacies. An entire nation backs the initiative, with a few other countries not far behind them (New Zealand comes to mind as the next big mover in the Vaping direction), but people like them "will" not be swayed by such "arbitrary" "anecdotal" evidence as that. You are wasting your data here. these people aren't looking to be convinced, they are listening to respond, not listening to learn. Vape on and continue on your happy journey.

Seems like the only keyboard warriors are you 2 -

I posted Evidence to the contrary of your claims - Is it less harmful than cigarettes it seems so - but it is not as Harmless as you claim!

As for the UK you claim is promoting vaping NHS promotes vaping for smoking cessation -
Also its a regulated industry there - - so there is more control on what exactly is put into it - as for you 2 idiots who know what the hell you guys are putting into those things -so as I said before Currently Its unregulated here so all the studies and whatnot you say - makes no difference - there is no regulation - you can load up on 100mg of nicotine is it still safe.- and in the UK even though they regulate it is still illegal to sell any e cigarette products to any one under the age of 18 - if its so safe it should be ok for kids.


as for New zealand they have laws as below

The Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Vaping Amendment Bill will include the following rules:

• “Ban the sale of vaping products to those under the age of 18.
• Prohibit advertising the products and encouraging people to buy them in-store.
• Limit the sale of all flavours to specialist stores, including online retailers, with shops Like dairies, supermarkets and petrol stations restricted to mint, menthol and tobacco.
• Allow speciality stores to continue offering loyalty points and discounts.
• Ban vaping in cars with children.
• Enable all retailers to display products in-store.
• Provide a framework for regulations to be set where people are allowed to vape in or outside premises.
• Introduce a safety system which would allow the Ministry of Health to recall products, suspend them and issue warnings.”

must be very save if they don't allow it to be advertised and Ban vaping in cars with children.


And I ask you as well

Do you vape in front of your children or any children?

 

[D3v8]

Chemicals such as:


Also I noticed you ignored my question
Do you vape in front of your children or any children?



Seems like the only keyboard warriors are you 2 -

I posted Evidence to the contrary of your claims - Is it less harmful than cigarettes it seems so - but it is not as Harmless as you claim!

As for the UK you claim is promoting vaping NHS promotes vaping for smoking cessation -
Also its a regulated industry there - - so there is more control on what exactly is put into it - as for you 2 idiots who know what the hell you guys are putting into those things -so as I said before Currently Its unregulated here so all the studies and whatnot you say - makes no difference - there is no regulation - you can load up on 100mg of nicotine is it still safe.- and in the UK even though they regulate it is still illegal to sell any e cigarette products to any one under the age of 18 - if its so safe it should be ok for kids.

And I ask you as well

Do you vape in front of your children or any children?

No i do not vape in front of any children, just like i never smoked in front of any children. Vaping is not for children.

IT is a smoking cessation tool or healthier alternative to smoking.

Have not once disagreed with the regulation of vaping, I am against our goverment using it as their next cash cow and taxing it the same as much more harmful tobacco products, that would discourage smokers to switch to a healthier alternative.

Apart from bathtub home brewers, the reputable local manufacturers of e-liquid manufacture according to ISO 7 standards.

I have not entered a legitimate vape shop in SA that did not have a policy and/or signage up that they do not sell to people under the age of 18. This was done on their own accord as there was no legislation that forced them to do so. And I'm not talking about china-mall shops, they give a flying rat's arse as to what they sell and to whom, as long as they get paid. They sell illegal cigarettes as well, although there is "regulation" in place in South Africa prohibiting that.

Not going to grace you with a reply to your "idiot" comment....

 

[isie]

No i do not vape in front of any children, just like i never smoked in front of any children. Vaping is not for children.

If it safe to smoke around anyone as @WhiteRaven insisted it is then it should be Ok to vape in front of children and for children to vape?

IT is a smoking cessation tool or healthier alternative to smoking.

if you using that to quit - by all means - it's less then smoking but again not harmless to you or second hand vapers.

Have not once disagreed with the regulation of vaping, I am against our goverment using it as their next cash cow and taxing it the same as much more harmful tobacco products, that would discourage smokers to switch to a healthier alternative.

Go look at my post regarding my opinion on the sin taxes

Apart from bathtub home brewers, the reputable local manufacturers of e-liquid manufacture according to ISO 7 standards.

I have not entered a legitimate vape shop in SA that did not have a policy and/or signage up that they do not sell to people under the age of 18. This was done on their own accord as there was no legislation that forced them to do so. And I'm not talking about china-mall shops, they give a flying rat's arse as to what they sell and to whom, as long as they get paid. They sell illegal cigarettes as well, although there is "regulation" in place in South Africa prohibiting that.

How exactly would a non vaper know exactly what every person is vaper (wtf is the actual term) is pushing into the atmosphere - I'm just supposed to trust?

Not going to grace you with a reply to your "idiot" comment....

So do yo u100% think it is safe to vape in front of others

 

[D3v8]

Chemicals such as:

Another fearmongering article.

second on their list of "big bad chemicals" is Propylene Glycol wich is used extensively in the medical field for inhalant medical devices such as Asthma Inhalers.

https://juniperpublishers.com/gjpps/pdf/GJPPS.MS.ID.555584.pdf

Carcinogens can be found in almost every thing we consume on a daily basis, including 'braaivleis'

Known and Probable Human Carcinogens

Explore lists of known and probable human carcinogens from the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) and the National Toxicology Program (NTP).

www.cancer.org

The amounts of Diacetyl you would need to inhale is astronomical. The only documented cases for "Popcorn Lung" was in a popcorn factory where the workers inhaled copious amounts of diacetyl in the process of making butter flavoured popcorn (yes, is you've had anything 'butter flavoured, you have consumed Diacetyl and in a larger quantity than what you would have vaped.

Please go and look at my previous post regarding the vaping in public and cloud blowers

So do yo u100% think it is safe to vape in front of others

 

[WhiteRaven]

Please do research on how the South African vaping community has been self-regulating for years, because as responsible adults who do not believe that smoking/vaping/drinking is for children, this has been self enforce by manufacturers, store owners and individuals.

I vape in front of my kid, my dog, the tv, my laptop and sometimes the car guard. I vape in front of a lot of things BUT as I was a considerate smoker, I am a considerate vaper. If you meant do I vape with kids in the room, well no I don't.... It's the same as how I don't eat chocolate cake in front of someone who is on diet, it's called manners and being considerate, which is very very different from what you are implying my reasons are.

As D3v8 said, we are not against the vaping space being regulated, we are however against it being branded a tobacco product because it is not.

VPASA | Vapour Products Association of South Africa – Industry Voice & Advocacy

The Vapour Products Association of South Africa (VPASA) represents manufacturers, wholesalers, and retailers of smoke‑free vapour products. We advocate for resp

vpasa.org.za

Anyways... I am always game for a heated debate but I'm not entertaining you anymore, you lost this when you made this personal and called me an idiot.