sms/email when reaching Bundle threshold

[vodacom3g]

We are one of the fortunate victim's of not receiving the so called sms's. 5 Months later & still not resolved, via 3rd Party ISP. We are now being threatened with lawyers, & VC what are they doing in assisting those that are in this kind of situation, IMO nothing. Yet we stay with with them, just convert to Prepaid user. Why? are they the best of the bad bunch??

3rd party ISP's, they see the contract's/OOB as a form of making money. They just give it a deaf ear when they get questioned about not receiving the warning sms's. All they say is, not our problem and put the blame at the door of VODACOM. So where do we go now.

Which ever way the sms warning system needs to be resolved NOW!! But why should they put a priority to it? It is a loss of revenue to them VC/NVSP provider's. Example:- If they have 10,000 prepaid users that go OOB & they only take R1 from each users credit that is available! That is R10,000 profit with no extra effort. What a pleasure.

How many user know about vodacom4me???.


How many millions has VC & there partners made from this of sms's. ????

Sorry @ic and all. This a very sore point!!!

I'm a bit confused about your statement. The SMS's were delivered. I gave you the times and dates your SIM received them. It's somewhere here in the forum.

But getting stuck on the SMS issue is a cop-out. Long before these SMS's were sent to you, you already knew about the in-bundle / OOB rates. You knew about this (at least) from the moment you bought the bundle and downloaded your first byte and probably long before that.

I also take exception to your statement that nothing is being done on this. There are numerous checks in place to make you aware of how the system works, including the simple fact (you seem to ignore all the time) that when you bought the package in the first place you knew well you're buying 500M or 1Gig or whatever. And that when you go OOB, you pay a different rate.

You did not walk into a shop and blindly bought something, you either did some research upfront (like deciding what size bundle you require) or you inquired about it in the shop. You then made a choice and you made that choice based on data bundle size.

In your specific case, you even have family who work in the industry from where you get your 'inside' information. Surely you discussed this with them?

You well knew how the setup worked before you signed on the dotted line.

So how can you, who claim to be very technical, BTW, not have understood that if you use up your bundle, you're going to go OOB? To now claim you did not know smacks of the American model of refusal to take responsibility for your own actions. Suddenly Vodacom is responsible to protect you from yourself?

I guess you hold Ford (or whatever car you drive) responsible every time you get a parking or speeding fine? After all, they sold you the car, so its their responsibility if you don't use it according to the rules? And they should pay the fine on your behalf because they did not stop you from going over the speed limit.

Or when you wake up with a splitting headache, it's the Captain's fault, not yours?

There are at least 2 letters provided to customers, the information is included everywhere info on bundles are published (vodacom.co.za / vodacom4me, press, forums, etc.) and nowadays the shops even make customers sign a register that they understand the process. Even the dashboard will warn you about this.

So, it's extremely difficult for anyone NOT to know about the bundle / OOB setup.

I can understand that this can still be potentially confusing for someone who does not understand these kind of concepts at all and thus we are putting all these checks in place.

But it's strange coming from a self-confessed IT guru.....

 

[ic]

Perhaps o/t for this thread, but anyways...while ic Vodacom's POV and ic Csnoopy's POV, there is a serious problem with the contract data bundle system, namely no realtime data usage updates [i.e. 3+hrs out of date], and therefore no realtime data usage monitoring, and consequently no facility to stop the flow of bytes exactly at the point where the end of a contract data bundle is reached.

Very true and relevant that it is the customer's responsibility to watch their usage and disconnect when data usage goes beyond their data bundle size.

The PPDB system is 1000 times better than the CDB system, using a PPDB one doesn't have to eagle-eye one's data usage, you simply do an Internet Banking transfer for the cost of your chosen PPDB+R1.00, buy your PPDB and start using it, without the fear of going into OOBR territory.

The potential for straying into OOBR territory, is the primary reason why I stopped using CDBs and switched to using PPDBs, I simply refuse to use CDBs until the CDB system gets liposuctioned out of existence and fused into the PPDB system, unfortunately those that signed 24 month contracts are not lucky enough to be able to abandon the CDB system and switch to using PPDBs.

 

[vodacom3g]

Perhaps o/t for this thread, but anyways...while ic Vodacom's POV and ic Csnoopy's POV, there is a serious problem with the contract data bundle system, namely no realtime data usage updates [i.e. 3+hrs out of date], and therefore no realtime data usage monitoring, and consequently no facility to stop the flow of bytes exactly at the point where the end of a contract data bundle is reached.

Very true and relevant that it is the customer's responsibility to watch their usage and disconnect when data usage goes beyond their data bundle size.

The PPDB system is 1000 times better than the CDB system, using a PPDB one doesn't have to eagle-eye one's data usage, you simply do an Internet Banking transfer for the cost of your chosen PPDB+R1.00, buy your PPDB and start using it, without the fear of going into OOBR territory.

The potential for straying into OOBR territory, is the primary reason why I stopped using CDBs and switched to using PPDBs, I simply refuse to use CDBs until the CDB system gets liposuctioned out of existence and fused into the PPDB system, unfortunately those that signed 24 month contracts are not lucky enough to be able to abandon the CDB system and switch to using PPDBs.

That's why we've already started the project to move CDB to real-time.

 

[ic]

That's why we've already started the project to move CDB to real-time.

I'm fighting an overwhelming urge to ask how long the project will take to reach completion & be implemented .

Hopefully not as long as it took for the PPDB system to be implemented.

The main thing is that Vodacom knows the importance of merging the CDB system into the PPDB system - the longer it takes, the more market share Vodacom loses.

 

[vodacom3g]

I'm fighting an overwhelming urge to ask how long the project will take to reach completion & be implemented .

Hopefully not as long as it took for the PPDB system to be implemented.

The main thing is that Vodacom knows the importance of merging the CDB system into the PPDB system - the longer it takes, the more market share Vodacom loses.

It's been (and still is) one of my personal crusades to get CDB's real-time.

You know the problems we had the first time around with these systems, but hopefully the technology is now much more mature (PPDB seems quite stable), but I'm also not going to get into the same situation as last....

So let agree on a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy....

 

[Csnoopy]

I hope you feel much better now that you have let of all the steam that had been building up over time. Oh and thanks for the personal attack.

I'm a bit confused about your statement. The SMS's were delivered. I gave you the times and dates your SIM received them. It's somewhere here in the forum.

Yes you did. But I did not receive them. Because VMC-L did not have the option to read sms's. I stand corrected but I was the one that started the ball rolling to get a dashboard for E220 that could read the sms's.

But getting stuck on the SMS issue is a cop-out. Long before these SMS's were sent to you, you already knew about the in-bundle / OOB rates. You knew about this (at least) from the moment you bought the bundle and downloaded your first byte and probably long before that.

Of course I did. Never said I didn't. It has nothing to do with a cop-out.

I also take exception to your statement that nothing is being done on this.

I apologise for this. It wasn't meant to come out like that.

There are numerous checks in place to make you aware of how the system works, including the simple fact (you seem to ignore all the time) that when you bought the package in the first place you knew well you're buying 500M or 1Gig or whatever. And that when you go OOB, you pay a different rate.

Now, yes. Via 3rd party ISP nothing is presented. Now after fiasco yes they also understand how it works & the risks. The sales person we bought from didn't understand the risks either. Was never told that If we did not use it we would loose it.

You did not walk into a shop and blindly bought something, you either did some research upfront (like deciding what size bundle you require) or you inquired about it in the shop. You then made a choice and you made that choice based on data bundle size.

Very true. Primarily people look at what they can afford first and then buy. Via VSP & v4me there are several options available to set warnings but via 3rd party ISP's ???.

In your specific case, you even have family who work in the industry from where you get your 'inside' information. Surely you discussed this with them?

Also true. But just recently.

You well knew how the setup worked before you signed on the dotted line.

So how can you, who claim to be very technical, BTW, not have understood that if you use up your bundle, you're going to go OOB? To now claim you did not know smacks of the American model of refusal to take responsibility for your own actions. Suddenly Vodacom is responsible to protect you from yourself?

Never said we were not taking responsibility. Yes they are responsible, because they supplied and probably are still supplying E220 modem's via there outlet's with software that do not have sms function.

I guess you hold Ford (or whatever car you drive) responsible every time you get a parking or speeding fine? After all, they sold you the car, so its their responsibility if you don't use it according to the rules? And they should pay the fine on your behalf because they did not stop you from going over the speed limit.

No I don't because there are visible sign's all over warning about the risks. But they replaced all the windows with black panel's so I could not see the sign's. Oh yes they left a small hole where I could just see where I was driving.

Or when you wake up with a splitting headache, it's the Captain's fault, not yours?

I have to think about this one.

There are at least 2 letters provided to customers, the information is included everywhere info on bundles are published (vodacom.co.za / vodacom4me, press, forums, etc.) and nowadays the shops even make customers sign a register that they understand the process. Even the dashboard will warn you about this.
So, it's extremely difficult for anyone NOT to know about the bundle / OOB setup.

Only just recently yes. And thank you for putting in all the effort in getting this information out into the field.

I can understand that this can still be potentially confusing for someone who does not understand these kind of concepts at all and thus we are putting all these checks in place.

Thank you again for the effort.

But it's strange coming from a self-confessed IT guru.....

???????? Where did I say that?

If it is wasn't for the incomplete software that Vodacom/Vodafone supplied with there E220 modems, I would not have been on this Forum & I believe many others like me.

Nowhere does it say that when you buy this product you should download all kinds of tools to cross check vodacom's system because they can not be trusted or if you buy from 3rd party ISP there are seperate goal posts.

etc. etc. etc.

 

[Csnoopy]

Perhaps o/t for this thread, but anyways...while ic Vodacom's POV and ic Csnoopy's POV, there is a serious problem with the contract data bundle system, namely no realtime data usage updates [i.e. 3+hrs out of date], and therefore no realtime data usage monitoring, and consequently no facility to stop the flow of bytes exactly at the point where the end of a contract data bundle is reached.

Very true and relevant that it is the customer's responsibility to watch their usage and disconnect when data usage goes beyond their data bundle size.

The PPDB system is 1000 times better than the CDB system, using a PPDB one doesn't have to eagle-eye one's data usage, you simply do an Internet Banking transfer for the cost of your chosen PPDB+R1.00, buy your PPDB and start using it, without the fear of going into OOBR territory.

The potential for straying into OOBR territory, is the primary reason why I stopped using CDBs and switched to using PPDBs, I simply refuse to use CDBs until the CDB system gets liposuctioned out of existence and fused into the PPDB system, unfortunately those that signed 24 month contracts are not lucky enough to be able to abandon the CDB system and switch to using PPDBs.

Lol PPDB+R1.00 Why the R1.00 extra ??

 

[Csnoopy]

@ic. I suggest that you move all the related posts to the relevant thread.

Sorry for high jacking the thread.
It was due to not receiving or being able to view sms's.

I will report back as soon as I purchase a PPDB.

 

[ic]

@ic. I suggest that you move all the related posts to the relevant thread.

It took a while to find the most relevant thread, but I have now moved several posts into this thread.

 

[vodacom3g]

But getting stuck on the SMS issue is a cop-out. Long before these SMS's were sent to you, you already knew about the in-bundle / OOB rates. You knew about this (at least) from the moment you bought the bundle and downloaded your first byte and probably long before that.

Of course I did. Never said I didn't. It has nothing to do with a cop-out.

This is exactly my point and I'm glad you agree. You knew how to check your data on either the dash and/or 4me, the formal ways of doing so. The SMS's were added as an extra alert.

So, it does not gel to say you never received the SMS's and therefore are not responsible for the data you used.

 

[ic]

Lol PPDB+R1.00 Why the R1.00 extra ??

The pre-paid-data reservation system requires that one has a pre-paid balance of at least R1.00 [or at least 0.50MB left on a PPDB], otherwise right near the end of one's PPDB [<0.50MB remaining] the pre-paid-data reservation system seems to stop the flow of data, and one cannot use up the remainder of the PPDB, also if there is a disconnect [e.g. one disconnects manually], one cannot reconnect [keep getting 619 errors] without that R1.00 pre-paid credit or until one recharges.

So, to avoid all that, and be able to buy another PPDB without having to wait for one's PPDB to expire, add R1.00 to the Rand value of the PPDB when recharging via Internet Banking.

 

[Csnoopy]

This is exactly my point and I'm glad you agree. You knew how to check your data on either the dash and/or 4me, the formal ways of doing so. The SMS's were added as an extra alert.

So, it does not gel to say you never received the SMS's and therefore are not responsible for the data you used.

I also never said that we did not take responsibilty for data useage. But nobody said you sign for R249/month and then get invoiced for a couple of thousand a month later. Example gory251 @ R2000 + +- R1800. Even sending MM to 31050 did not work during April & May. So what were we suppose to use to monitor/manage data useage.

It is stated on Vodacom's web site that the data meter on the dash is unreliable. So how can that be used to track data useage? As has been said before that v4me is useless when you are a NONVSP user. No option for detail account and the data useage does not show out of bundle usage. So what is the point in using these 2 sources if they are meaninless. Why are the majority of forum E220 users using HMP or HMC, because the software supplied with the E220 is useless. When are VC going to take responsibility for there mistakes ?

 

[ic]

@v3g, does Vodacom have any influence or power to intervene between a 3rd party service provider and one of their customers, e.g. between @lantic and Csnoopy? - the reason I ask, is that it sounds like @lantic haven't been playing fair behind the scenes in Csnoopy's case [of course we haven't heard @lantic's side of the story].

 

[vodacom3g]

I also never said that we did not take responsibilty for data useage. But nobody said you sign for R249/month and then get invoiced for a couple of thousand a month later. Example gory251 @ R2000 + +- R1800. Even sending MM to 31050 did not work during April & May. So what were we suppose to use to monitor/manage data useage.

It is stated on Vodacom's web site that the data meter on the dash is unreliable. So how can that be used to track data useage? As has been said before that v4me is useless when you are a NONVSP user. No option for detail account and the data useage does not show out of bundle usage. So what is the point in using these 2 sources if they are meaninless. Why are the majority of forum E220 users using HMP or HMC, because the software supplied with the E220 is useless. When are VC going to take responsibility for there mistakes ?

Reality is, you got invoiced a large amount because you used more data than your bundle. Rightly or wrongly that's exactly the package you bought. And, as you agreed above, you understood this. That's my point. You ran up a large bill (twice) and now are looking at why you should not be held responsible. Latching onto the lack of SMS support in the dash does not gel.

You have three systems to check your data usage, the dash, 4me and MM.

The dash is only unreliable when a session is terminated abnormally, either at a connection or application level. Even your beloved HMP suffers from this.

4me will show your data usage till you go OOB. Surely you should then realise you're OOB? And use the dash or MM till you buy a new bundle.

I'm not aware of MM not working for 2 months? For sure, it was not posted about on this forum. I just checked with the Executive Head of 155 and they also don't know about this.

So, by using these three systems you should have an pretty accurate indication of your usage. Even taking the latency of 4me into account, you're not going to get billed thousands extra.

gory51's situation is completely different and was resolved AFAIK.

Are the majority of forumites using Huawei's dash? I don't know. I do know that you (and Iam3G) advise everyone to switch to the Huawei dash and firmware (which, BTW. has not been certified by Vodacom). I still don't see what's wrong with VM-Lite? I use it every day (as well as HMP) and they all seem to work fine.

So, I'm not to sure what 'mistakes' Vodacom must take responsibility for?

Vodacom mobile data products have been sold for more than 2 years before you bought one. So it's not a new product with limited knowledge on the caveats, rather it's well known and understood in the industry.

 

[vodacom3g]

@v3g, does Vodacom have any influence or power to intervene between a 3rd party service provider and one of their customers, e.g. between @lantic and Csnoopy? - the reason I ask, is that it sounds like @lantic haven't been playing fair behind the scenes in Csnoopy's case [of course we haven't heard @lantic's side of the story].

While we can't intervene in any SP / Customer interaction in any case, in this specific instance, I'm not to sure where Atlantic faulted?

If I undertand where Atlantic went wrong, I can forward to the Vodacom channel manager.

 

[ic]

While we can't intervene in any SP / Customer interaction in any case, in this specific instance, I'm not to sure where Atlantic faulted?

If I undertand where Atlantic went wrong, I can forward to the Vodacom channel manager.

IMO it might help if Csnoopy, myself and yourself take this discussion offline for a bit, via p.m...

 

[vodacom3g]

IMO it might help if Csnoopy, myself and yourself take this discussion offline for a bit, via p.m...

Agree....

 

[AirWolf]

I know that Ginggs Tool gives you a pop up message saying that you have received an sms even though it doesn't allow you to read it. Does the VMC that doesn't have sms support also not come up with a similar pop up message?

 

[Csnoopy]

Reality is, you got invoiced a large amount because you used more data than your bundle. Rightly or wrongly that's exactly the package you bought. And, as you agreed above, you understood this. That's my point. You ran up a large bill (twice) and now are looking at why you should not be held responsible. Latching onto the lack of SMS support in the dash does not gel.

Yes for us it was the last straw to latch onto.

Initially We did not even know about the sms's being sent at different stages. One of the tech's at the ISP said that we should have received sms's. If you then say that the dash, vc4me and 31050/mm is the prefered way or however way you put it, then why bother implementing another system that will send out sms's? What a waist of money. 3 out of 3 did not give us what we wanted so the last option was the sms's. We had gone to all & sundry and they could not even give us telephonically what we needed and all we wanted was an update, where we are with our data useage.

You have three systems to check your data usage, the dash, 4me and MM.

The dash has a bar graph with a zero value and the max value, now how are we suppose to read the value's in between these 2 points. The other 2 you know the problems we have/had with them.

IMO. Which none of worked, at that point in time. Because we did not know how vc4me worked, for VSP & NVSP user's.

The dash is only unreliable when a session is terminated abnormally, either at a connection or application level. Even your beloved HMP suffers from this.

True. But even 155 and on vc4me it says that the measured value via the dash is not accurate. vc4me should be used.

4me will show your data usage till you go OOB. Surely you should then realise you're OOB? And use the dash or MM till you buy a new bundle.

Very true but MM did not work at that stage.

I'm not aware of MM not working for 2 months? For sure, it was not posted about on this forum. I just checked with the Executive Head of 155 and they also don't know about this.

I have sent you emails indicating that the MM system was down.

So, by using these three systems you should have an pretty accurate indication of your usage. Even taking the latency of 4me into account, you're not going to get billed thousands extra.

Yes of course. Are you then saying that we went way over OOB on purpose?

gory51's situation is completely different and was resolved AFAIK

.

Whatever. He complained about excess charges. Why was he not told to use the relevant tools to monitor his data useage? etc. Resolved yes. Lucky guy. Bruce000's friend also.

Are the majority of forumites using Huawei's dash? I don't know. I do know that you (and Iam3G) advise everyone to switch to the Huawei dash and firmware (which, BTW. has not been certified by Vodacom). I still don't see what's wrong with VM-Lite? I use it every day (as well as HMP) and they all seem to work fine.

Which version of VM-Lite are you using? I am sure that the initial bugs and sms's issue's have been fixed. Huawei don't provide Firmware only dash software. At least the people that complained about the VMC-L sofware have gone away and are happy. Never was there ever a warning put out, not to use uncertified VC software. I made mention of it several times and no response from VC's side. I even warned Iam3G not to just change all the E220 system's, they are selling to Huawei's software because 155 & customercare don't know the products.

So, I'm not to sure what 'mistakes' Vodacom must take responsibility for?

Supply a product that does not fully support there systems, like VMC-l that did not have the option of viewing the sms's on the sim. IMO there were very few people that knew about the sms's being sent when going or getting close to oob.

Vodacom mobile data products have been sold for more than 2 years before you bought one. So it's not a new product with limited knowledge on the caveats, rather it's well known and understood in the industry.

Maybe so yes. When was the E220 launched? Because this whole issue is about the software used with the E220. I also understand that the original shipment of E220 modems was shipped with Huawei HMC software with preconfigured profiles for Vodacom.

 

[Csnoopy]

I know that Ginggs Tool gives you a pop up message saying that you have received an sms even though it doesn't allow you to read it. Does the VMC that doesn't have sms support also not come up with a similar pop up message?

No. But there is a new version at Vodacom that can be downloaded.

http://www.vodacom.co.za/services/mobile_data/downloads.jsp