SNR and Line Attenuation

stonecold , can you please do a tracert to cnn.com and paste results here - with saix based account 1st..and then if possible IS 2nd

thx
 
fz1, here is my ipconfig/all info:

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : *edited out*
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

PPP adapter Openweb:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Openweb
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . :
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 196.209.38.84(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 196.209.32.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 168.210.2.2
196.14.239.2
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0F-EA-26-C4-AF
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::e561:2f6a:34b8:11fe%9(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.10(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.0.0.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 09 December 2007 06:59:02 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 10 December 2007 06:59:01 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.2
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.2
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 218107882
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 196.43.38.190
196.43.42.190
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Ethernet adapter Hamachi:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Hamachi Network Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 7A-79-05-7D-DA-08
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 5.125.218.8(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.0.0.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 09 December 2007 06:58:32 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 09 December 2007 10:21:47 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 5.0.0.1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : isatap.{592D529F-AFC2-4170-8E61-2DE15D73C
2A4}
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-00-54-55-4E-01
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 10:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : isatap.{DAE6B646-D6F0-4EC1-8CE3-F76F27E68
720}
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 11:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : 6TO4 Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MrNutz, here is a tracert with my SAIX account, unfortunately, my IS account is local only:

And I'm afraid it DOESNT look good :(

Tracing route to cnn.com [64.236.29.120]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 * * * Request timed out.
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

Funny thing though, when i enter cnn.com in my browser, it still opens up the page no problem.

My setup is as follows:

I have my router in bridge mode, with my SAIX account in there, and I have a pppoe conenction to my local only account. I use RouteSentry for Vista. Sometimes, my intl will completely "disconnect", meaning that I will lose all intl connectivity, but its still connected to my account, i just cant access intl sites then. But this happens rarely, but still it annoys me.

What do you guys make of the info that I posted ? Any solutions ? My connection used to be awesome with nice 30-50ms max pings to SGS servers, but for the last 6-7 months it has just gone to poo poo :mad: !
 
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Interesting (complicated :)) configuration there.

I can't tracert to cnn.com either (SAIX), don't worry.

I don't use RouteSentry at all, so I'm at a loss here. However, to rule out variables, I would say that you should try everything with a "simpler" configuration (i.e. no RouteSentry, one PPPoE or router [non-bridged] mode connection) to make sure that this is not the reason you have extra hops (?) while gaming. This especially applies if your buddies (with lower pings) are not using RouteSentry... Sorry, that's all I can offer at this stage ;)
 
i agree..

break your configuration down...

*use cables instead of wireless
*run router in bridge mode or try router mode (for authentication)
*do a ping 41.242.128.1 -t and post results here

my tracert to cnn.com using telkominternet (saix) shaped - with bridge mode.

C:\Documents and Settings\J>tracert cnn.com

Tracing route to cnn.com [64.236.16.52]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 15 ms 14 ms 15 ms dsl-241-128-01.telkomadsl.co.za [41.241.128.1]
2 15 ms 15 ms 14 ms 196.43.33.209
3 15 ms 14 ms 15 ms 196.43.33.209
4 20 ms 18 ms 18 ms 196.43.33.2
5 16 ms 23 ms 17 ms 196.43.33.5
6 403 ms 397 ms 397 ms ash-ip-dir-equinix-pos-7-0.telkom-ipnet.co.za [1
96.43.9.154]
7 386 ms 384 ms 383 ms so-3-0-1.ar1.DCA3.gblx.net [208.49.224.161]
8 378 ms 376 ms 382 ms te1-2-10g.ar3.DCA3.gblx.net [67.17.108.146]
9 352 ms 355 ms 358 ms pop2-ash-S2-1-0.atdn.net [66.185.136.9]
10 347 ms 347 ms * bb2-ash-P2-0.atdn.net [66.185.139.210]
11 343 ms 345 ms 343 ms bb2-cha-P7-0.atdn.net [66.185.152.51]
12 343 ms 345 ms 345 ms bb1-cha-P1-0.atdn.net [66.185.152.134]
13 345 ms 351 ms 352 ms bb1-atm-P6-0.atdn.net [66.185.152.182]
14 ^C
C:\Documents and Settings\J>


C:\Documents and Settings\J>tracert saix.net

Tracing route to saix.net [196.25.1.200]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 21 ms 15 ms 21 ms dsl-241-128-01.telkomadsl.co.za [41.241.128.1]
2 41 ms 43 ms 41 ms wblv-ip-essr-1-atm-2-0-0-2.telkom-ipnet.co.za
96.43.11.30]
3 57 ms 61 ms 46 ms wblv-ip-www-1.saix.net [196.25.1.200]

Trace complete.


C:\Documents and Settings\J>ping 41.242.128.1 -t

Pinging 41.242.128.1 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=252
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=252
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=252
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=252
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=252
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=252
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=252
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=252

Ping statistics for 41.242.128.1:
Packets: Sent = 8, Received = 8, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 23ms, Maximum = 31ms, Average = 25ms
 
Last edited:
Hmm, I'll check it out fz1, thanx for responding, would like to hear what MrNutz also has to say. Anyhow, I used RS on XP as well back in the day, and I had my sweet pings and I got tracert response hops indicating routes...I definetely think it has to do with the routing of my connection and a overloaded exchange, I'll phone that guy at IPnet later today and here what he has to say. :)

*EDIT* Hehehe, I saw we both responded at the same time, thanx MrNutz

Here is the ping test:

C:\Users\S>ping 41.242.128.1 -t

Pinging 41.242.128.1 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=80ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=79ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=80ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=80ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=80ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=83ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=80ms TTL=244
Reply from 41.242.128.1: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=244

BTW, I am not using wireless, using cables, and I'll check and see if there is a difference between bridge mode and router mode, but I doubt it, I had low pings in the past with bridge mode, I doubt it could be the cause, but I'll test...
 
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i have a line attenuation reading of 63db, how far does that mean i stay from the exchange? more than 3.5 km's? i thought my exchange was just round the corner..
 
Any line attenuation reading above 60dB is considered marginal. You can get a rough idea of your distance to the exchange by dividing the attenuation reading by 13.81 (i.e. 63/13.81 ~ 4.6km from the exchange). [Leftfoot has commented previously that the figure of 13.81 is closer to 15.1 in the case of Telkom lines. See http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=95172&page=2&highlight=Leftfoot ].

If you are actually this distance from the exchange you can't really expect anything better than 512kbps - maybe 1Mbps if you are lucky. If there is some type of line fault then this figure might be inflated artificially.
 
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2Mbps sounds very good for an attenuation of 63dB+. Take a look here for an estimate of the maximum line speeds that you can expect.
http://fremnet.net/article/216/adsl-theoretical-speed-calculator

It would appear that 63dB is the maximum figure that most routers can report i.e. your attenuation might even be higher than that but the router can only report it as 63dB. It seems that a few customers are managing to get speeds close to 3Mbps with attenuations over 60dB but I think that these may be exceptional cases. In most cases the speeds are much lower and often the service is declined due to reliability problems. What figure are you getting for your downstream noise margin? If this is still well above 6dB (>9~10dB etc.) you might even be able to get higher speeds. The noise margin really determines whether or not the router can maintain the connection.

More on 63dB+ attenuation
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/forums/index.cfm?action=showthread&threadid=290425&forumid=18
http://www.dslzoneuk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7517

Unfortunately you will not be able to benefit much from ADSL2+ type technologies in the future due to your high line attenuation unless this figure can be improved.
 
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Can anyone help with what each line stands for, some are obvious, some are not.

Line Attenuation (Down):41 (Up):24
Noise Margin (Down):11 (Up):13
Current State DownStr: 4096(K) UpStr: 384(K)
FEC(FAST) (Near):68 (Far):0
CRC(FAST) (Near):0 (Far):253
HEC(FAST) (Near):68 (Far):0
Showtime last(sec) 34167
 
time4net said:
Can anyone help with what each line stands for, some are obvious, some are not.

Line Attenuation (Down):41 (Up):24
Noise Margin (Down):11 (Up):13
Current State DownStr: 4096(K) UpStr: 384(K)
FEC(FAST) (Near):68 (Far):0
CRC(FAST) (Near):0 (Far):253
HEC(FAST) (Near):68 (Far):0
Showtime last(sec) 34167
Click to expand...



FEC = Forward error correction (FEC).
CRC = Cyclic Redundancy Check
HEC = Header Error Control (HEC) violations
showtime=uptime in seconds

FEC=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_error_correction

CRC errors are simply errors too severe to be corrected
,while FEC errors were correctable.

HEC errors are the ATM equivalent of CRC errors, except only the header of the ATM cell is checked, and can fix only single bit errors. Where you enough of one type of error, you'll typically have the others as well. Some degree of errors are considered normal on a DSL line
 
@[OUPA]

Thanks, what is normal and would you be happy with these figures. What are normal levels for CRC errors per day or hour or week

Thanks
 
i can't honestly comment on the FEC,HEC ideal figures.

but looking at your profile:

-you are at 4096
-you are at 41 attenuation down (which is good for 4meg)
-and for the uptime that you stated , the # of crc errors aint a lot...however the only rather interesting thing is that the crc errors occured on the upstream side , and not the downstream..

do you have any trouble with online gaming? /stability of the line?

it doesn't seem so

5 star line imho.
 
Thanks,

I have not had any problems and line appears to be stable. I was just concidering that when and if the speeds get bumped up to 10meg what sort of position I would be in.

fast is never fast enough

Thanks again
 
jeppe777 said:
how do i check Line Attenuation on mega 100wr?
Click to expand...

I don't know that router but I think that it is based on the TI AR7 chipset. If you can't find the information on one of the router's menus if you telnet to the router (username= root, password= as normal) you could try this command cat /proc/avalanche/avsar_modem_stats. Alternatively you could also try these commands - wan adsl linedataf1 OR wan adsl linedata far OR wan adsl linedatan OR wan adsl linedata near. You could also look here for some other ideas ...
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.htm
 
Last edited:
Yotch said:
What figure are you getting for your downstream noise margin? If this is still well above 6dB (>9~10dB etc.) you might even be able to get higher speeds. The noise margin really determines whether or not the router can maintain the connection.
Click to expand...


SNR = 11 down and 13 up
Att = 62 down and 31 up
Sync = 2048 down and 384 up
 
@ocean-addict: You could always ask Telkom to increase your speed to 4Mbps and monitor your stability. If your downstream noise margin stays above 6 you may be able to get a stable connection. Take a look at Nutz's figures for comparison purposes. If your line becomes unstable then just reduce your speed back to 2048kbps.

Alrighty..

Alot has been done - line has been moved - and i'm over the moon with my stability.

The average SNR for 2048 for my location was about 14.5.

3072 had been 12.9-13.1 SNR.

Today they (telkom) decided to bump me to 4096 - currently at 11.9 SNR.

I'll measure the fluctuations on 4meg - and see if i can live with it - otherwise - 2meg is fine for me
Click to expand...
 
hey hey mr Yotch,

going good this side! I'm stuck at between 9.8 and 11.9 SNR on 4096 sync profile - without ANY problems :)

line attenuation is also fixed at 52.

i've seen a few customers in the recent 2 weeks that had 384/128 profiles but 60+ attenuation ...majority on 5102g router. not very optimistic of them getting 4meg or higher (adsl2+ won't help really).

@ocean-addict: i think you are gonna start having problems if you go to 4096 - but u can push for 3072.
 
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