Solar opinions

Major Boredom said:
Couldnt be bothered
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You defending the technology - I want to be convinced to buy into the technology
Major Boredom said:
I challenged you to find a opposite lab result. Go on.. Should be easy ... I would even settle for a neutral result
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No one has done the test So I'm supposed to trust the person selling the device claims of impartial tests that are not clearly impartial?
Major Boredom said:
You have your own view you are projecting. Go find the evidence to support it. Not doing your work for you
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I'm asking for evidence to support the claims you are making, being sceptical doesn't mean I'm not willing - I have my doubts but a simple like for like comparison will convince me, If it does indeed work why evidence of this simple test so hard to come by?
 
Anyway so here is a basic test done by someone I have dealings with in PV ... Not Laboratory though. But close enough to show there is a difference


Normal: 16deg + 34deg = 50deg in 37mins. Power used 1504Wh
PTC: 15deg + 36deg = 51deg in 37 mins. Power used 1352Wh

I'm asking for evidence to support the claims you are making, being sceptical doesn't mean I'm not willing - I have my doubts but a simple like for like comparison will convince me, If it does indeed work why evidence of this simple test so hard to come by?

There you go, supplied you another one done by a SAer
And no I couldnt care less if you purchased one or not. I dont sell PV or offer consulting to home owners.
Would I buy one ( if I used a geyser ) , yes , but not for the reasons you are looking at.
 
tetrasect said:
So how can a resistance heater be "more efficient than a resistance heater" when all resistance heaters are 100% efficient?

You could put 20x 100W incandescent light bulbs in your geyser and get the exact same efficiency.

It's pretty basic physics.

I have provided two Wikipedia links to back this up.
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Sure and that is why I said he was working on a incorrect singular view.
 
Major Boredom said:
Anyway so here is a basic test done by someone I have dealing with in PV ... Not Laboratory though


Normal: 16deg + 34deg = 50deg in 37mins. Power used 1504Wh
PTC: 15deg + 36deg = 51deg in 37 mins. Power used 1352Wh

I'm asking for evidence to support the claims you are making, being sceptical doesn't mean I'm not willing - I have my doubts but a simple like for like comparison will convince me, If it does indeed work why evidence of this simple test so hard to come by?

There you go, supplied you another one done by a SAer
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reading the forum commendable effort but unfortunately he did mention a few things that could skew the results (both for and against both elements)
not a laboratory environment multiple factors that can affect the test results
scaled down the power supply to the standard element
Test was not done concurrently
initial temp for PTC was lower
only a single test was done
test was not done under pressure - open tank heat loss
thanks but way too many inconsistencies

I have seen tests of heat pump and solar - both are very efficient in terms of power usage but ultimately slower at heating water and way more expense initial cost compared to a traditional element. - So no one needs much convincing but costs are a huge factor.
Hear we being told about a technology that claims to be faster or able to heat water in the same amount of time at a lower power requirement (which one is it again?) then a traditional element at a slightly more expensive but still relatively affordable cost - and yet no reliable independent laboratory test
Major Boredom said:
And no I couldnt care less if you purchased one or not. I dont sell PV or offer consulting to home owners.
Would I buy one ( if I used a geyser ) , yes , but not for the reasons you are looking at.
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Cool tell us when you get one
 
So let me put down why I WOULD put in a PTC based heater instead of a normal based coil heater

1. The power savings at the start , if there are any, are a pure bonus
2. Because the internal operating temperatures are lower on a PTC compared to a normal coil heater , there is less scale build up over time.
3. Because there is lower scale buildup , the effective lifetime is longer
4. Because there is lower scale buildup , heating effieciency will stay higher for longer compared , because scale buildup influences heating efficiency.
5. PTC has better protection for low/no water situations which in current scenarios in the SA municipalities are a reality today.
6. With PTC you also are possibly able to do away with extra components that can fail as depending in the unit purchased do not require thermostats etc.
7. If I was looking at it in a PV environment the lower Kw rating would also be playing a factor

So my view on why to buy one is completely different ( long term ) compared to yours ( short term )
This is why I said you were looking at it with a singular view that was incorrect
 
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Major Boredom said:
Anyway so here is a basic test done by someone I have dealings with in PV ... Not Laboratory though. But close enough to show there is a difference


Normal: 16deg + 34deg = 50deg in 37mins. Power used 1504Wh
PTC: 15deg + 36deg = 51deg in 37 mins. Power used 1352Wh

I'm asking for evidence to support the claims you are making, being sceptical doesn't mean I'm not willing - I have my doubts but a simple like for like comparison will convince me, If it does indeed work why evidence of this simple test so hard to come by?

There you go, supplied you another one done by a SAer
And no I couldnt care less if you purchased one or not. I dont sell PV or offer consulting to home owners.
Would I buy one ( if I used a geyser ) , yes , but not for the reasons you are looking at.
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Unscientific.

What pops out the most is that the PTC test was done "later in the day", the guy seemingly being completely unaware of ambient temperature having an impact on the test which he did "in a steel drum".

It's not physically possible for two resistive heating elements to have an efficiency that is either less or more than 100%.

If there ever was a scientific test that showed that result then I would be very worried because that would mean the basic laws of physics are massively wrong.

What exactly is your explanation of how this would be possible, in terms of science?
 
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isie said:
I have seen tests of heat pump and solar - both are very efficient in terms of power usage but ultimately slower at heating water and way more expense initial cost compared to a traditional element. - So no one needs much convincing but costs are a huge factor.
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Im not getting one , I dont need to. I dont have that type of geyser. I did the long view when I went solar.
I used to have a heat pump that I bought at a previous house.
There are very serious shortcomings

1. In cold weather it runs for extremely long period of times to get above 50C. This has health considerations
eg : https://ushpg.com/knowledge_center/...gionella-bacteria-in-your-water-supply-pipes/
2. This negates the so called power savings

As for the rest , still waiting for your lab results....
 
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isie said:
I have seen tests of heat pump and solar - both are very efficient in terms of power usage but ultimately slower at heating water and way more expense initial cost compared to a traditional element.
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Not true. A heat pump with a 2kw input will heat water multiple times faster than a 2kw resistive element.

Because the heating output of the heat pump will be anywhere from 6kw to 12kw while the resistive element will have a heating output of 2kw.
 
Major Boredom said:
Im not getting one , I dont need to. I dont have that type of geyser. I did the long view when I went solar.
I used to have a heat pump that I bought at a previous house.
There are very serious shortcomings

1. In cold weather it runs for extremely long period of times to get above 50C
2. This negates the so called power savings
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Even at -10 degrees, a heat pump is more than double as efficient as a resistive element.
 
tetrasect said:
Even at -10 degrees, a heat pump is more than double as efficient as a resistive element.
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ushpg.com

Legionnaires Disease (Legionella Bacteria) in Your Water Supply Pipes- Home Performance Group LLC

Legionnaires Disease? Full-Service Master Plumber can test and remediate legionella bacteria in your plumbing! Home Performance Group (816) 744-8033
ushpg.com ushpg.com
There are health consideration wrt to it

The other problem is because you are not even getting to 60-65C most of the time the actual usable hot water you get out of your 200L geyser is much less
It is a much bigger and complex end result than oh, it is 10C less
 
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Major Boredom said:
ushpg.com

Legionnaires Disease (Legionella Bacteria) in Your Water Supply Pipes- Home Performance Group LLC

Legionnaires Disease? Full-Service Master Plumber can test and remediate legionella bacteria in your plumbing! Home Performance Group (816) 744-8033
ushpg.com ushpg.com
There are health consideration wrt to it
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What rubbish is this now?

You're on a roll today...
 
tetrasect said:
What rubbish is this now?

You're on a roll today...
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LOL Glad its rubbish
Go google it ....
Lots of university and other learned instutions have published papers on it

Here is another one :

Stellenbosch University | Forward Together

Stellenbosch University is a leading research institution driving knowledge, innovation and transformation through excellence, inclusivity and impact.
www.sun.ac.za www.sun.ac.za

Here is a WHO recommendation

Residential water heater temperature: 49 or 60 degrees Celsius? - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Major Boredom said:
Im not getting one , I dont need to. I dont have that type of geyser. I did the long view when I went solar.
I used to have a heat pump that I bought at a previous house.
There are very serious shortcomings

1. In cold weather it runs for extremely long period of times to get above 50C. This has health considerations
eg : https://ushpg.com/knowledge_center/...gionella-bacteria-in-your-water-supply-pipes/
2. This negates the so called power savings

As for the rest , still waiting for your lab results....
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I have said numerous times I can't find independent lab tests for our against and no one including you has provided this. And it's not like in looking specifically to disprove it I'm just looking for honest independent lab test
the closest I got was a phone call from geyser wise.

So you had a heat pump, you had solar, what you using now instant gas or electric?
 
Major Boredom said:
LOL Glad its rubbish
Go google it ....
Lots of university and other learned instutions have published papers on it

Here is another one :

Stellenbosch University | Forward Together

Stellenbosch University is a leading research institution driving knowledge, innovation and transformation through excellence, inclusivity and impact.
www.sun.ac.za www.sun.ac.za

Here is a WHO recommendation

Residential water heater temperature: 49 or 60 degrees Celsius? - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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What the hell are you on about, man?

You know you can set your temperature on a heat pump just like with any other type of geyser?

And if you're really worried about bacteria then stop drinking shower water. :p
 
tetrasect said:
What the hell are you on about, man?

You know you can set your temperature on a heat pump just like with any other type of geyser?

And if you're really worried about bacteria then stop drinking shower water. :p
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LOL . Yes you can , but check the specs on the heatpump . Max temp it can do is normally 60
In winter it battles to get to 55. At least the model I had
 
isie said:
I have said numerous times I can't find independent lab tests for our against and no one including you has provided this. And it's not like in looking specifically to disprove it I'm just looking for honest independent lab test
the closest I got was a phone call from geyser wise.

So you had a heat pump, you had solar, what you using now instant gas or electric?
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Prev House had Solar heated geyser ( very old model though ) , I changed that to a heat pump when the prev wore out . Wasnt happy with heat pump so changed back to normal electric.
New place is instant gas. 1 is constant temp force fed ( very very nice ) . 2nd is a lower range 20l/min . I have solar installed at new house as well
 
tetrasect said:
And if you're really worried about bacteria then stop drinking shower water. :p
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Your other points aren't bad but this one is.

You should be concerned about legionella if you aren't occasionally heating the water to over 60C. It's not just drinking it becomes airborne and is a seriously bad disease.

They shut down leisure centres in the west of there's a hint of it in the aircon.
 
richjdavies said:
Your other points aren't bad but this one is.

You should be concerned about legionella if you aren't occasionally heating the water to over 60C. It's not just drinking it becomes airborne and is a seriously bad disease.

They shut down leisure centres in the west of there's a hint of it in the aircon.
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Well it was a joke, so... :p
 
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