South Africans emmigrating & Europeans immigrating

S

Skinner

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Strange and ironic logic: so many South Africans can't wait to get out of SA, while so many Europeans can't wait to get INTO SA.

I hear of so many Europeans that go and settle in SA, and how wonderful their lives are there. They even make TV programs here in Europe about it. From the poor to the rich, scores and scores of them. And one can't help but notice more and more Europeans settling in and around Cape Town.

Who can explain this irony?
Are these Europeans stupid by wanting to settle in SA, or are the South Africans stupid by wanting to leave SA? :confused:
 
The Europeans can still live like Kings here in SA with their euros, but wait until they experience the crime
 
I think thats the deciding factor for europeans (and especially Brits), look at an average house of say 240k in the UK and see what you can get here for that amount..

They come here on holiday (same deal works also for saffas going OS) and see how wonderful the hospitality is (and it is), how lovely the 'tourist' country is and decide to move based on that without having to put up with the day to day mundane BS that is the very reason some people here want to leave.
 
The reverse is also true for South Africans going abroad. They take their Rands with (which may be a lot) and then it gets converted in the foreign country, resulting in peanuts. Having to prove themselves in their new working place and European working environment (which is EXTREMELY tough), they don't earn the big bucks for quite a while long.

Also know of many Europeans that have lived in SA for many years. Sure, they came with their Euros, they build a high wall around their mansion, and that's it. They stay happy. And they stay in SA.

My point is: are South Africans able to regain a happy lifestyle abroad, since clearly Europeans are able to gain and retain a happy life in SA?
 
phenom said:
these foreigners are also subject to bee, aa?
Click to expand...

From the many TV programs you see over here about these Europeans settling in SA, and from those I know personally, I can observe the following:
1) Most of them start their own businesses in SA (1-5 people) and become successful.
2) SA Residence/Business Permit requires that they employ certain amount of AA workers.
3) The AA workers strive in excellence in the work they do for these non-Apartheid foreigners.
4) The foreigners treat and pay their workers extremely well.
5) Somehow the foreigners are very seldomly affected by crime. It is like they have a halo of good luck over them.
6) Even in public, on streets, in informal settlements (where the foreigners drive in and pick up the workers / drop them off!!) they are treated like kings, greeted every time, laugh and friendly, etc.

South Africans in Europe:
1) No-one cares where you are from and that you are from the Dark Continent.
2) In public offices, you are treated like you are unwanted, the same like other foreigners from Turkey / Iraq / Afganistan etc. You are basically no better than an unemployed smelly immigrant from East Europe or the Middle East.
3) Very difficult to impress anyone at work with your skills. Your qualifications and experience in SA are questioned/ignored since Europeans cannot believe that anything good can come out of Africa.
4) You have to work *very hard* to prove yourself, and your reward after 1 year (apart from salary increase) is even MORE WORK.
5) In a horribly unfamiliar environment, help is scarce and you have to find out things for yourself. *No-one* will help you.
 
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phenom said:
these foreigners are also subject to bee, aa?
Click to expand...
Yes, but it affects them less. 90% of the foreigners I know in SA got sent here by an international company or are diplomats. Either way they are more or less guaranteed a place in management.

Living in SA while earning Euros is pretty crazy. Usually housing, education for the kids and regular flights back home are also paid for by the company.:o
 
Yeah but in the defense of immigrating SA people, 'we' are a hundred times stronger,
tougher, ambitious, and harder, than the pretty shallow ditsy one-dimensional pampered folk of the US and the EU, who don't have even a tiny percentage of the life-experience that most SA people have.
Us 'lighter colored' Africans may 'look' just like the white folk of the West, however we're
not them, and we're a lot tougher than them.
Something they (the West) don't quite 'get'.

RE
South Africans in Europe:
1) No-one cares where you are from and that you are from the Dark Continent.
Why should they care? Do you want someone to hold your hand?

2) In public offices, you are treated like you are unwanted, the same like other foreigners from Turkey / Iraq / Afganistan etc. You are basically no better than an unemployed smelly immigrant from East Europe or the Middle East.

So what?

3) Very difficult to impress anyone at work with your skills. Your qualifications and experience in SA are questioned/ignored since Europeans cannot believe that anything good can come out of Africa.

If you think work is about 'impressing someone with your skills' - then you need to employ someone to tell you how great you are, and go flip burgers rather :P . Work is about doing the job. If you're lucky enough to have someone see that you're skilled, great, otherwise - shut up and enjoy the money.

4) You have to work *very hard* to prove yourself, and your reward after 1 year (apart from salary increase) is even MORE WORK.
And a LOT more money, and a lot more free time, and a lot more safety, security, and peace - something missing from SA. Besides, if you're
doing a job of work that you hate - whose fault is it? Everyone elses? Or yours. Go reinvest money, train at something YOU like to do,
and make a buck that way. Repeat after me "Flex-ibility" :P

5) In a horribly unfamiliar environment, help is scarce and you have to find out things for yourself. *No-one* will help you.
Wah, wah wah.. *baby crying sounds*

Try learning how to 'adapt' to your new environment, rather than demanding or expecting that your new surroundings should adjust to you.

:)
 
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Skinner said:
From the many TV programs you see over here about these Europeans settling in SA, and from those I know personally, I can observe the following:
1) Most of them start their own businesses in SA (1-5 people) and become successful.
2) SA Residence/Business Permit requires that they employ certain amount of AA workers.
South Africans in Europe:
1) No-one cares where you are from and that you are from the Dark Continent.
2) In public offices, you are treated like you are unwanted, the same like other foreigners from Turkey / Iraq / Afganistan etc. You are basically no better than an unemployed smelly immigrant from East Europe or the Middle East.
3) Very difficult to impress anyone at work with your skills. Your qualifications and experience in SA are questioned/ignored since Europeans cannot believe that anything good can come out of Africa.
4) You have to work *very hard* to prove yourself, and your reward after 1 year (apart from salary increase) is even MORE WORK.
5) In a horribly unfamiliar environment, help is scarce and you have to find out things for yourself. *No-one* will help you.
Click to expand...

at least people find you more intresting becasue of your accent:D:p
 
I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with LoneGunman... jeez dude stop whining, what do you expect that the country will be bending over backwards to serve you?
 
boramk said:
at least people find you more intresting becasue of your accent:D:p
Click to expand...

Not really, they think you are Dutch (regardless of whether you speak English or Afrikaans).

Those that don't think you're Dutch, regard you as a filthy immigrant (like all the rest).
 
LoneGunman said:
Yeah but in the defense of immigrating SA people, 'we' are a hundred times stronger,
tougher, ambitious, and harder, than the pretty shallow ditsy one-dimensional pampered folk of the US and the EU, who don't have even a tiny percentage of the life-experience that most SA people have.
Us 'lighter colored' Africans may 'look' just like the white folk of the West, however we're
not them, and we're a lot tougher than them.
Something they (the West) don't quite 'get'.

RE
South Africans in Europe:
1) No-one cares where you are from and that you are from the Dark Continent.
Why should they care? Do you want someone to hold your hand?

2) In public offices, you are treated like you are unwanted, the same like other foreigners from Turkey / Iraq / Afganistan etc. You are basically no better than an unemployed smelly immigrant from East Europe or the Middle East.

So what?

3) Very difficult to impress anyone at work with your skills. Your qualifications and experience in SA are questioned/ignored since Europeans cannot believe that anything good can come out of Africa.

If you think work is about 'impressing someone with your skills' - then you need to employ someone to tell you how great you are, and go flip burgers rather :P . Work is about doing the job. If you're lucky enough to have someone see that you're skilled, great, otherwise - shut up and enjoy the money.

4) You have to work *very hard* to prove yourself, and your reward after 1 year (apart from salary increase) is even MORE WORK.
And a LOT more money, and a lot more free time, and a lot more safety, security, and peace - something missing from SA. Besides, if you're
doing a job of work that you hate - whose fault is it? Everyone elses? Or yours. Go reinvest money, train at something YOU like to do,
and make a buck that way. Repeat after me "Flex-ibility" :P

5) In a horribly unfamiliar environment, help is scarce and you have to find out things for yourself. *No-one* will help you.
Wah, wah wah.. *baby crying sounds*

Try learning how to 'adapt' to your new environment, rather than demanding or expecting that your new surroundings should adjust to you.

:)
Click to expand...

My point was to illustrate that while Europeans require little effort to have it easy in SA, South Africans have it difficult in Europe and require lots of effort to cope.
 
The expression "The grass is not always greener on the other side" comes to mind for both the SA emigrants and the Euro immigrants.
 
LoneGunman said:
Yeah but in the defense of immigrating SA people, 'we' are a hundred times stronger,
tougher, ambitious, and harder, than the pretty shallow ditsy one-dimensional pampered folk of the US and the EU, who don't have even a tiny percentage of the life-experience that most SA people have.
Us 'lighter colored' Africans may 'look' just like the white folk of the West, however we're
not them, and we're a lot tougher than them.
Something they (the West) don't quite 'get'.
Click to expand...

South Africans? Life experience? Like what?

Don't fool yourself. And don't underestimate Europeans. As much as I hate to say this.

They have seen & travelled more of the world, their economies are much stronger and bigger, and they have been through 2 world wars.

At arrival, your confidence based on your superior ability to make a braai fire, hunt, dance with the lions, handle your parents' .303 or own Magnum Special, speak a black language, or walk barefeet outside soon wears out after a couple of months in Europe amongst Europeans, when realising your "toughness" is ignored / unseen / relatively miniscule. It is not a joke.
 
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Skinner said:
Not really, they think you are Dutch (regardless of whether you speak English or Afrikaans).

Those that don't think you're Dutch, regard you as a filthy immigrant (like all the rest).
Click to expand...

oh well, I guess thats just America :P
 
i have yet to meet a foreigner posted to SA who doesn't love it here. Of course some have bodyguards. Maybe they feel they have to make me feel better coz I am black.
 
They all hold EU passports so they can go back to europe no problem if things dont work out. That safety net as well as the strong pound and euro play a big part.

At the company where I work 5 or 6 of the managers go to cape town every year for a few weeks holiday. Not sure if they would want to live there though.
 
A black european who steps into sa for the first time benefits from AA in south africa. Unlike a white south african who was born and bred in the country. Who do you think will be happier? Lets not forget the millions of zimbabweens who too have it nice in sa.
 
MacNabs said:
A black european who steps into sa for the first time benefits from AA in south africa. Unlike a white south african who was born and bred in the country. Who do you think will be happier? Lets not forget the millions of zimbabweens who too have it nice in sa.
Click to expand...

Bullsh#t!! AA does not even benefit a black man from Africa!!! Dude you've been gone too long you'r starting to speak nonsense. Why don't you join a forum in NZ? that way you have a better chance of posting stuff you have 1st hand experience of.
 
JungleBoy said:
Bullsh#t!! AA does not even benefit a black man from Africa!!! Dude you've been gone too long you'r starting to speak nonsense. Why don't you join a forum in NZ? that way you have a better chance of posting stuff you have 1st hand experience of.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should have a look on the job sites and you will see how many jobs are reserved for blacks not to mention all the favouritism they get in the way of promotions, career advancement, government contracts, ect
 
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