State capture inquiry begins

Fulcrum29

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Ramaphosa reiterates that he will present the full State Capture report to Parliament within the next four months - as well as his response to its findings and recommendations.

He says the evidence and testimony given at the Commission will be archived.

Give or take October or November, possibly postponed to 2023? I am more concerned as to when those implicated will be charged… and going by how well the report was received by Ramaphosa I guess he dodged being implicated in cadre deployment and any possible involvement and knowledge during his time as deputy president or in party capacity. Note, this below is a remark,

The final part of the Zondo Report is scathing of the ANC's role in enabling state capture. It analyses cadre deployment, its effect on the hollowing out of state institutions and the party's refusal to act when it became clear that the Guptas and Zuma were working together.

At paragraph 733 in part 6, volume 2, Zondo says the ANC should have realised what was afoot after the Guptas' abuse of the Waterkloof Air Force Base in 2013.

If the ANC acted, it would have saved South Africa "billions of rands".

so... when did the ANC realise that the state is captured?

I am going to put my thoughts to rest since the reports and recommendations still require public analysis.
 

Fulcrum29

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Electoral reform | In a major finding and recommendation, Chief Justice Raymond Zondo has proposed that South Africa's Constitution be amended to allow the direct election of the president.

"How did the country end up having as President someone who would act the way President Zuma acted? Someone that could remove as good a public servant as Mr Themba Maseko from his position just so that he could put someone else into that position who would cooperate with the Guptas and give them business.

"A President who would fire the Minister of Finance just because his friends wanted someone else in that position who would cooperate with his friends and help them to capture the country; National Treasury.

"Indeed, a President who became party to a scheme created by the Guptas to remove a number of executives from their positions at Eskom so that the Guptas could put their own associates in those positions so as to facilitate the looting of Eskom."

Zondo concludes that our electoral system is flawed because many people wanted to vote for the ANC but not for Zuma as president.

He recommends that the Van Zyl Slabbert report of 2003 on electoral reforms be revisited.
 

Gordon_R

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TEXTILE GUY

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Another 'surprise' finding:
More worrying is the ANCs take - they are above the law


In response to the litigation, the ANC said it was concerning that the opposition would try to take a policy of the governing party to court.


“It’s worrisome that the Democratic Alliance or any other party would want to take an internal policy of the ANC to court.


“Imagine us now coming out and saying that we are taking the constitution of the Democratic Alliance or any of their policies,” ANC spokesperson Pule Mabe told SABC News on Friday.
 

Gordon_R

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More worrying is the ANCs take - they are above the law


Yeah, there's already a thread about the response:
 

TheChamp

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The ANC might have to scrap their cadre deployment but that is not going to stop cadre deployment because simply scrapping the policy will not stop the practice, maybe the influence will be reduced but I am not sure to what extent.
 

Priapus

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The ANC might have to scrap their cadre deployment but that is not going to stop cadre deployment because simply scrapping the policy will not stop the practice, maybe the influence will be reduced but I am not sure to what extent.

The ANC won't do anything the opposition wants.
 

TheChamp

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The ANC won't do anything the opposition wants.
If it is found to be illegal in court they have no choice, but as I said it won't be too much of a problem to scrap the policy and just continue with cadre deployment without having a policy shining light into your darkness.
 

Fulcrum29

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When I said this, it was contended,


Thuli Madonsela: South Africans should question whether State Capture is really over​

Former Public Protector Thuli Madonsela wants the public to take away one urgent lesson from the findings of the State Capture commission: there is a critical difference between corruption and State Capture.

Speaking to Daily Maverick two days after the release of the final Zondo report, Madonsela said it was vital to understand how much more “nefarious” State Capture is.

In the case of ordinary corruption, she says, people are bribed for financial gain. But in the case of State Capture, people are not just being bribed, but being placed into certain key state roles to carry out specific actions.

“You [as a State Capture perpetrator] have substituted yourself for the democratic process. This is the undermining of democracy by hijacking the state,” Madonsela said.

She believes that it is crucial that the State Capture commission’s findings reach as many people as possible, because: “People should be afraid that this happened and that it could happen again.”

Given the way in which secretive government bodies like the State Security Agency have been revealed to have been captured, Madonsela questions how certain we should be that State Capture is indeed over.

“What were the [State Capture] leviathan’s tentacles?” she asks. “Have they all been chopped?”
 

Fulcrum29

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Yet, his parole condition conveniently allows him to go to other Jacob Zuma Foundation conventions, and to go to casinos... It doesn't surprise me though since correctional services are protecting Jacob Zuma's medical parole and parole conditions.
 

Fulcrum29

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COMMENT | Zuma's daughter, Duduzile, is also here. She was an instigator of violence on social media almost exactly a year ago when the former president was sent to jail.

- Pieter du Toit

but... she hasn't been arrested. Pieter du Toit better tread lightly.

To continue,

COMMENT | Manyi proceeds to launch personal attacks on Zondo. This is full-on populism.

- Pieter du Toit

then,

EDITOR'S NOTE | We have decided to suspend the live stream from the briefing by the Zuma Foundation. The briefing conducted by his spokesperson, Mzwanele Manyi, contains various untested allegations and falsehoods related to the Zondo Commission, Chief Justice Raymond Zondo, and the establishment of the commission. We will continue to cover the briefing and point out Manyi's inconsistencies in the statement he is currently delivering.

- Pieter du Toit, Assistant Editor.
 

Fulcrum29

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I have now also listened to Manyi's ramblings... it is not good,


I can only hope that the state capture reports don't cause any more civil disobedience, all it needs is a catalyst.
 

The_Mowgs

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Fulcrum29

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I am intrigued by News24 cutting their live stream, in their given context, when they give this same airtime to others. They chose to go there, on an open invitation, and by now they should know that Jacob Zuma is never in attendance even when it is announced such as. I believe the last time Zuma was in attendance was when the arms deal trial was set to start and then impeded with another matter which turned into more matters still unresolved to this day.

Manyi rambled today, all their claims need to be supported. The only highlight I can agree with which is not related to today’s events is the remark made by Vuyani Ngalwana which has been touched on by Manyi, but that is not my place to legally nitpick on. The reports are going to be challenged where the courts will be tasked with sorting out these matters.

The question is more when the main implicated is on course to be prosecuted. These pre-trials, in my view, aren’t going to happen any time soon. The arms deal saga can also still be dragged out, and I don’t see the system being too keen on concurrently prosecuting Zuma. I would appreciate seeing the prosecutions set into motion within 2022.
 
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