Stop Destroying Videogames

[Fulcrum29]

The rental model has to change. Games and software have to become like tangible objects.

DRM will need a broad review. It would be good to examine interoperability, in legal terms, between ecosystems. Say Epic goes bankrupt, your digital library may be moved to an ecosystem chosen by you, the user. Bethesda allowed theirs to be migrated to Steam, so there is an existing premise. Obviously this is complex.

What should be important is that the right to access be considered ownership, and that the right should be protected.

 

[Mirai]

DRM will need a broad review. It would be good to examine interoperability, in legal terms, between ecosystems. Say Epic goes bankrupt, your digital library may be moved to an ecosystem chosen by you, the user. Bethesda allowed theirs to be migrated to Steam, so there is an existing premise. Obviously this is complex.

What should be important is that the right to access be considered ownership, and that the right should be protected.

Well GOG is already DRM free.

And Valve, 'promised' that should they go bust, they'll make a plan to allow people to continue to have access to their games.

 

[OutlawJoseyWales]

In years to come it will be the collectors of physical PS2, PS3 and PS4 consoles and games that will have access to stuff they actually own and can play whenever they want and the gaming companies can do nothing about.

The latest games will all be rentals, subject to the whims of companies.

 

[Mirai]

In years to come it will be the collectors of physical PS2, PS3 and PS4 consoles and games that will have access to stuff they actually own and can play whenever they want and the gaming companies can do nothing about.

The latest games will all be rentals, subject to the whims of companies.

Or maybe with improved AI technology, you'll just ask your AI to generate a video game for you and then tailor make it to your own requirements.

 

[OutlawJoseyWales]

Or maybe with improved AI technology, you'll just ask your AI to generate a video game for you and then tailor make it to your own requirements.

No, I'm talking maybe even next gen, not way in the future.

 

[Mirai]

No, I'm talking maybe even next gen, not way in the future.

That AI generation thing may happen sooner than you think. If you think about the animation and music advances in the past 5 years, who knows about the next 5.

 

[My_King]

Blur, dev studio went tits up, can not buy on Steam anymore.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskGames/comments/883nq3/where_to_get_the_digital_copy_of_blur_on_pc

Screenshot I just took of my legal copy.

Online Services​

• The game's online multiplayer servers were shut down quietly in the years following its release, though some unofficial methods might still let you play on PC (e.g., LAN tunneling).

If only they had given an official hosting method.
*I see it is asking to create an online account. Have not tested.

At least I can play. Imagine if you can't do anything.

 

[OutlawJoseyWales]

That AI generation thing may happen sooner than you think. If you think about the animation and music advances in the past 5 years, who knows about the next 5.

If AI can produce a quality live action Dragon Ball Z/Super movie with a decent plot, then and only then, will the AI path we are on have been worth it

 

[My_King]

If AI can produce a quality live action Dragon Ball Z/Super movie with a decent plot, then and only then, will the AI path we are on have been worth it

 

[OutlawJoseyWales]

View attachment 1832552

Yeah that movie was a disaster.

The potential for a truly EPIC movie is all there. Make it into a trilogy.
But you gotta back the movie with a budget to match it's scale.

I've seen some AI renditions of a lot of the characters and it would be something special if ever done on the scale it deserves.

 

[AnimateX]

This problem goes way back to the 1980s but in a slighty different way.

I bought a shitton of ZX Spectrum games way back on tapes but many of them are now not allowed to be distributed online because of some publishers filing DMCAs. Games that were made more than 40 years ago can no longer be distributed or bought. The only option is piracy if you want to revisit your youth.

 

[PhireSide]

Spanner in the works/hot take:

With regards to videogames that are considered 'defunct' (let's take Blur or The Crew for example), what about the licensing of the included audio tracks? Do these game houses sign deals with the artists whose tracks they include in their games for x number of years, or base it on the projected install base?

I'd be happy if say, Ubisoft gives over control of the source code of The Crew servers so that legitimate owners can play the game again, even if this means that they have to pull the licensed tracks or replace them with royalty-free tracks instead. Hell, just have 'inspired by' versions of the songs if you really must have the specific song.

I know that this is probably an edge case, but it is something that got me thinking. And about how deals used to work back before the 'always online' system that is prevalent nowadays. Surely, this was taken into consideration when the titles were released?

 

[Fulcrum29]

Spanner in the works/hot take:

With regards to videogames that are considered 'defunct' (let's take Blur or The Crew for example), what about the licensing of the included audio tracks? Do these game houses sign deals with the artists whose tracks they include in their games for x number of years, or base it on the projected install base?

I'd be happy if say, Ubisoft gives over control of the source code of The Crew servers so that legitimate owners can play the game again, even if this means that they have to pull the licensed tracks or replace them with royalty-free tracks instead. Hell, just have 'inspired by' versions of the songs if you really must have the specific song.

I know that this is probably an edge case, but it is something that got me thinking. And about how deals used to work back before the 'always online' system that is prevalent nowadays. Surely, this was taken into consideration when the titles were released?

Some insight:

Project Cars 1&2 will be delisted due to expired licenses

The first two Project Cars games will be removed from digital storefronts over the next few months.

www.shacknews.com

Project Cars 1&2 will be delisted due to expired licenses​

The first two Project Cars games will be removed from digital storefronts over the next few months.

Nearly ten years ago, the folks at Slightly Mad Studios started up a crowdfunding effort for a new racing game. It was codenamed Project Cars and it was a name that would ultimately stick, even as the first game was originally published by Bandai Namco. Fast-forward to 2022 and the ride appears to be over for the first two games in the series, as developer Slightly Mad Studios announced that Project Cars 1 & 2 will be delisted from digital storefronts over the next few months due to expired vehicle and track licenses.

Only sales are discontinued, the games can still be played, but they also culled online.

Rockstar Must Cut Some Music From GTA IV, But Plans To Replace It

Our colleagues at Kotaku UK broke the news yesterday that music licensing issues will force Rockstar Games to remove some songs from Grand Theft Auto IV, a game that celebrates its 10-year anniversary this month.

kotaku.com

Rockstar Must Cut Some Music From GTA IV, But Plans To Replace It​

...

A Rockstar representative confirmed to us today that songs will indeed be removed but added that the company will add songs to the game as well.

“Due to music licensing restrictions, we are required to remove certain songs from the in-game soundtrack of Grand Theft Auto IV and its Episodes, in particular a large portion of the Russian pop station, Vladivostok FM,” the Rockstar rep explained in an e-mailed statement. “However we are replacing some of those songs with a new set of songs on that station. We will update our customer support website with new information as soon as it is available.”

Rockstar adapted, changed the songs that isn't licensed anymore, and relisted their game as the same game under the same EULA.

There are more examples.

 

[Mirai]

Consumers can say no. It's easy.

I'm just waiting for the EC to hammer Nintendo Japan over the bricking of consoles over connection of third party peripherals, which is legal in Europe.

 

[Fulcrum29]

I do expect corporate pushback on this one.

Statement on Stop Killing Games - VIDEOGAMES EUROPE

We appreciate the passion of our community; however, the decision to discontinue online services is multi-faceted, never taken lightly and must be an option for companies when an online experience is no longer commercially viable. We understand that it can be disappointing for players but, when...

www.videogameseurope.eu

Statement on Stop Killing Games​

04/07/2025

We appreciate the passion of our community; however, the decision to discontinue online services is multi-faceted, never taken lightly and must be an option for companies when an online experience is no longer commercially viable. We understand that it can be disappointing for players but, when it does happen, the industry ensures that players are given fair notice of the prospective changes in compliance with local consumer protection laws.

Private servers are not always a viable alternative option for players as the protections we put in place to secure players’ data, remove illegal content, and combat unsafe community content would not exist and would leave rights holders liable. In addition, many titles are designed from the ground-up to be online-only; in effect, these proposals would curtail developer choice by making these video games prohibitively expensive to create.

We welcome the opportunity to discuss our position with policy makers and those who have led the European Citizens Initiative in the coming months.

The complete statement: https://www.videogameseurope.eu/wp-...ation-of-Support-to-Online-Games-04072025.pdf (PDF)

The members:



This isn't even only about online games. It is clear that their lobbies, and there will be more than one, will oppose the EU iniatitive and the UK petition. By oppose, they will attempt to squash.

 

[Fulcrum29]

I anticipated their reasoning, but all avenues need to be explored. There is reasonability to everything, but I need to quote this bit:

Video game companies are committed to the preservation of games and their cultural value It is important to separate the legal proposals being made by the petitioners – for specific end-of-life requirements for commercial video games – from the question of the preservation of games as creative and cultural works.

Video Games Europe and their member companies are committed to, and actively support, serious professional efforts to preserve video games and recognise the industry’s creative contributions under circumstances that do not jeopardize game companies’ rights under copyright law.

For example, members regularly donate game copies and hardware to preservation organisations and support museum exhibitions featuring games (1). Other video game companies have undertaken the gigantic task of creating video games libraries to support the preservation of games (2).

However, the industry’s innovation and economic activity depends on strong copyright protection for the software and other creative works that are its lifeblood, and preservation efforts should not be confused with uses that could conflict with the normal exploitation of the work by the right holder or unreasonably prejudice the legitimate interests of the author.

(1) Electronic Arts recently supported use of Battlefield 1 in a World War I exhibition at the Notre Dame de Lorette in Souchez, France (June 2023-January 2024) and War and Peace Museum in Novion Porcien, France (AprilDecember 2024) and use of SimCity 2000 in the “Game Society” exhibition at the National Museum of Modern and Contemporary Art in Seoul, Korea (May-September 2023).
(2) https://embracergamesarchive.com/

Fascinating how they are spinning game preservation. The argument is to have access to these games, and not to go and look at them in some museum.

I totally expect them to rent-a-troll to rubbish the consumer's plight.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Home - Embracer Games Archive

embracergamesarchive.com

• Can I visit the archive?
  The archive is for everyone, and we welcome all inquiries. However, we prioritize requests that support gaming culture, gaming history, and the games industry. For example, we aim to assist and grant access to people within the games industry, researchers, schools, and other institutions. While the archive is not open to the public, we hope our website and social media channels will offer insight into the work being done by our team.

From Video Games Europe:

All video games, whether digital or physical copies, are licensed. As is the case with virtually all digital works when consumers purchase online games, regardless of the country of sale, what they acquire is a personal license to access and play the copy of the game they have purchased in accordance with the game’s terms of service. The consumer does not acquire ownership of that video game. These clear intellectual property rights underpin the entire market and enable the strong investment that the industry has seen for decades. There is no legal uncertainty about the status quo of video games.

So, say you have previously purchased a license to access and play a video game, and the publisher/developer decides to withdraw the video game that you purchased. Are you then allowed to request the Embracer Games Archive to send you a copy? I guess no.

Also, to quote:

Games are licensed to the consumer in accordance with their terms of service. These set out the terms upon which consumers may access and play such games and the situations in which such licensed rights may be terminated. Consumers are informed that their access to online games and associated services may terminate and are informed with sufficient notice in cases where that does happen.

• Transparency: Players must be given reasonable prior notice before any termination of access to the game.
• Reimbursement: The Digital Content Directive provides consumers with price reduction and reimbursement rights in certain circumstances, but also with repair and replacement rights if a game service fails to achieve conformity with certain required warranties.
• Service Duration: EU legislation requires that the service aspects of online video games be provided for a reasonable amount of time, taking into account all relevant factors. It would be disproportionate for a specific duration to be imposed as this would need to be valid of all types of services, not just games.
• Fair Terms: The Unfair Terms Directive prohibits games companies from imposing terms on consumers that significantly imbalance the parties' rights and obligations to the detriment of consumers.

Now, I have had Humble Bundle bought games removed because the dev had a tantrum. It was eventually reinstated. This has now happened to two games in my library IIRC.

I now had a look at a random single player game. Still Wakes the Deep, its terms:

Still Wakes the Deep - Terms of Use

wearesecretmode.com

4. Termination

4.5 Without prejudice to the other provisions in this Terms of Use Agreement, we may terminate our agreement with you (in whole or in part) for any reason at our discretion upon reasonable notice to you and the following would apply:

4.5.1 if your use of the Game was provided to you free of charge, you will not be entitled to any compensation or any refund; and

4.6 Following termination of this Terms of Use Agreement for the Game for any cause, you will no longer be permitted to use the Game and you will be required to delete the Game from your devices. Please be aware that, where applicable, any rankings, scores, saved games, message history, progression history or other information or data relating to your Game user account (where applicable) may thereafter be deleted and/or become inaccessible.

Yoh. They don't even link to this on their Steam product page.

I have seen multiple games come under duress due to legal issues. Ultimately, they have all been restored, though some with changes.

Odd how Video Games Europe does not name "users" once in its arguments, but talks about "players." The "user" is the licensee.

For some reason, those who own the IPs don't want the access to games protected, whether they are singleplayer or multiplayer. I have now gone through multiple EULA's and other user agreements. The language is the same all over, and I get it, there are third-party licenses also involved, as well as multiple IP owners in some cases. It is all conditional. Regardless, the user has to be protected.

And,

Why an obligation on video game companies to provide only a limited type of end-of-life plan is disproportionate It is not clear what the initiators of the stop killing games petition seek to achieve as a legal change. It appears to be a combination of a requirement to provide online services for as long as a consumer wants them, regardless of price paid, and/or a requirement to provide a very specific form of end-of-life plan where the game is altered to enable private servers to operate. We do not believe these are proportionate demands.

Uhm, no, this is eerily similar to a certain online commentator's remark. A certain portion above does indicate that consumers aren't paying enough...

What can be said is that they don't like that the UK petition and EU initiative have reached their required signatures. Don't be surprised to see a push to invalidate the signatures.

Don't they want this debated?

 

[warrenpridgeon]

Using the car and providing an appropriate analogy, it's like buying a Volvo, then have Volvo pull out of SA and then be restricted in not being able to use other spare parts. So now you must junk your car because the manufacturer pulled out and you may not fit third party parts or repair broken parts or modify other parts to fit the abandoned car.

It's actually even worse than that... when Volvo pulls out the country, they come and gut your Volvo, leaving only a shell (if they don't come and tow it away that is). So now, not only can't you buy air filters for it, but you can't even use it. You can put your coffee cup on it like a coaster (i.e. the CD/DVD of the game) lol.

 

[now05ster]

For those who are old and want the TLDR,

 

[Supervan II]

Hmm, was expecting this "backlash" eventually.

I, for one, have never, and will never purchase any game that a) Requires an internet connection, or b) is a digital download.

It's enough that that kant, Bill Gates, has effectively disabled my paid-for physical media (eg, most of the Need For Speed games, amongst others) by making the latest version(s) of Windows incapable of playing them (anti-piracy software, SafeDisc, SecuRom, StarForce, etc).

The only way I can play these games nowadays, if I wanted to, is to download a cracked copy, (i.e. pirated) EVEN ALTHOUGH I HAVE THE ORIGINAL CD THAT I PURCHASED!

tl/dr: Thank Bill Gates for the current scenario. He stated publicly many, many years ago that this was/is his idea and this is exactly what he intended to do all along.

*spits*