Suggestions for Vodacom data network

[ambo]

If what you say about AfriNIC is true (and I will for sure take it up - PM me more details if you have, please)

sent

v6? Limited support by vendors.....

That surprises me since Cisco and Huawei were recently named as 2 pioneers in the IPv6 space. Although I do appreciate that those two will not cover every piece of equipment on your network I would expect that there is enough support there to get something out in the wild

I'm not sure if it is possible to get IPv6 to work in Windoze heXPee, but I do know that IPv6 has for some time had extensive Linux support [2.6 kernel], and now Windoze Vista also natively supports IPv6.

heXPee can be IPv6 enabled with one tickbox or one command on the at the command line

netsh interface ipv6 install

depending on your personal flavour for PC admin.

Vista, MacOS and Linux all have fairly mature IPv6 stacks included and enabled by default.

 

[vodacom3g]

That surprises me since Cisco and Huawei were recently named as 2 pioneers in the IPv6 space. Although I do appreciate that those two will not cover every piece of equipment on your network I would expect that there is enough support there to get something out in the wild.

Unfortunately the telcoms world is not always so 'leading-edge' when it comes to IP.....

Got your PM and already mailed the AfriNIC CEO, thanks!

 

[ic]

You might wonder why we just not leave them on the apn, but in addition of potentially using scarse IP's, they also use up other resources on the network, purely by being provisioned. Also, we now have to duplicate (very expensive) backend systems that manage IP comms (proxies, virus scanners, etc.)

As I indicated, this has a knoeck-on effect that goes beyond just the IP itself.

Understood, but I do remember having mentioned VMware several times before .

Enterprise grade virtual infrastructure from VMware will allow Vodacom to scale to the demands of an ever increasing customer-base...

IPV6 pilot projects already running but I don't expect production status soon.

I would be prepared to sign a disclaimer contract for BETA testing of IPv6 on Vodacom's network, I'm sure others would as well if it advances the likelihood of IPv6 in production at some point in time...

 

[vodacom3g]

Understood, but I do remember having mentioned VMware several times before .

Not sure if all these engines can run under VMWare.

 

[ic]

Not sure if all these engines can run under VMWare.

It would be a good idea if Vodacom could task someone with investigating what can be virtualised and creating a demo set of virtualised systems - it will be money very well spent - trust me I'm not a doctor nor am I a lawyer...

 

[biometrics]

I don't buy the argument that IPv4 addresses are not available. There's 4+ billion numbers in a 32 bit address. Most corporates use some kind of NAT. All Telkom's ADSL users get a routable address. What makes Vodacom so special that they can't acquire a large enough pool of addresses or do they assume all users are stupid?

 

[vodacom3g]

I don't buy the argument that IPv4 addresses are not available. There's 4+ billion numbers in a 32 bit address. Most corporates use some kind of NAT. All Telkom's ADSL users get a routable address. What makes Vodacom so special that they can't acquire a large enough pool of addresses or do they assume all users are stupid?

5 million concurrent users maybe?

And that's today, what's it going to look like in the (near) future as more phones have GPRS on, by default?

Bio, I would never assume 'all users are stupid'. But you also need to understand (and give credit) that we also think about these problems and try and find solutions that'll work for everyone.

I think, as is often the case, that people tend to forget the sheer scale of the monster we need to work with. Telkom have a few hundred thousand concurrent users, I saw MTN said the other day they have around 3 million and I know we're around 5 bar. (remember any phone that's provisioned for data can (and normally do) attach to the network and use up an IP.

So we already need around 80 Class B's or 1 class A. Thus the NATed 10.x.x.x.

 

[ic]

5 million concurrent users maybe?

And that's today, what's it going to look like in the (near) future as more phones have GPRS on, by default?

Bio, I would never assume 'all users are stupid'. But you also need to understand (and give credit) that we also think about these problems and try and find solutions that'll work for everyone.

I think, as is often the case, that people tend to forget the sheer scale of the monster we need to work with. Telkom have a few hundred thousand concurrent users, I saw MTN said the other day they have around 3 million and I know we're around 5 bar. (remember any phone that's provisioned for data can (and normally do) attach to the network and use up an IP.

So we already need around 80 Class B's or 1 class A. Thus the NATed 10.x.x.x.

IMO the simplest solution at this point in time, is to have a serious heart 2 heart chat with AfriNIC, the fact that Telkodemonopolies managed to get allocated with the 41.x.y.z IPv4 Class A address range, means that Vodacom with far more customers needing an IPv4 address, should have no problem getting a Class A allocation.

Once Vodacom has a set of IPv4 Class A addresses to use, the complexity associated with the internet APN will reduce, drastically.

 

[diabolus]

Just a side question, other than the "sharing an IP range causing anomalies when using certain services checking those IPs" , why do one need all this?

I've switched to MTN the last months [even though their support & feedback sucks] simply because Vodacom's connection has been bad for awhile now. Disconnects, bad latency , never getting the speeds you'd expect etc etc. I ran MTN and Vodacom side by side for a month now [down to Vodafone Modem+App and MTN modem+App] , MTNs EDGE are kicking the pants of Vodacom 3G especially in areas where the actual speed is not as important as simply getting a solid continuous connection with a good ping.

Yes if it's a good day , and a good hour, Vodacom HSDPA simply moves like lightning, but
it's simply not stable enough where i'm at. Dunno if it's congestion, my particular spot or what [however it's not the only place i get this issue] , it's just plain a frustrating experience.

So i can't really give suggestions because i don't know why. It's not like my connection doesn't work at all [bar the loads of 619 errors i get in peak usage times], but with the prices now being "acceptable" the stability of the connection is now the main thing on my list of concerns. Whether i get 500kbps or 800kbps is also a lesser concern than simply having the connection stable and functioning continuously.

 

[ambo]

the fact that Telkodemonopolies managed to get allocated with the 41.x.y.z IPv4 Class A address range

Just a correction there - IPv4 classing structure was scrapped many years ago when Classless Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR) was implemented.
41.0.0.0/8 has been allocated to AfriNIC and they are currently allocating sub-blocks out of that range to Telkom, iBurst, IS and anyone else across Africa that makes a request for blocks of address space.

IMO the simplest solution at this point in time, is to have a serious heart 2 heart chat with AfriNIC

vodacom3g is on it

 

[Mier]

My 2c:
I don't think IPv6 will solve the issue. Unless the rest of the world is also running IPv6, you'll probably be NATted at some point between IPv6 and IPv4 anyway.
Besides, while most people on this forum are fairly knowledgeable (probably representing about 0.01% of Vodacom's data users), try explaining to your grandmother how to IPv6 enable her PC...

Also, consider the security benefits of not having a public IP. Since you pay for each byte you receive, you will also be paying for someone to hack you.

 

[ic]

Just a correction there - IPv4 classing structure was scrapped many years ago when Classless Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR) was implemented.
41.0.0.0/8 has been allocated to AfriNIC and they are currently allocating sub-blocks out of that range to Telkom, iBurst, IS and anyone else across Africa that makes a request for blocks of address space.
vodacom3g is on it

Yep, I am familiar with CIDR, but not familiar with how AfriNIC allocates IP address blocks, besides it was v3g that mentioned Class B and then Class A instead of CIDR, so I just continued using those terms of reference, or perpetuating the obsolete terminology if you want to look at it that way .

My 2c:
I don't think IPv6 will solve the issue. Unless the rest of the world is also running IPv6, you'll probably be NATted at some point between IPv6 and IPv4 anyway.
Besides, while most people on this forum are fairly knowledgeable (probably representing about 0.01% of Vodacom's data users), try explaining to your grandmother how to IPv6 enable her PC...

IPv6 has to become a reality at some point in time, otherwise there is no point in having an IPv6 standard if no one is prepared to use it.

Also, consider the security benefits of not having a public IP. Since you pay for each byte you receive, you will also be paying for someone to hack you.

That statement only holds true when using the unrestricted APN, whereas both the internet [default] and internetvpn APNs block unsolicited incoming traffic, and the internetvpn APN provides publicly routable IP addresses.

 

[vodacom3g]

Yep, I am familiar with CIDR, but not familiar with how AfriNIC allocates IP address blocks, besides it was v3g that mentioned Class B and then Class A instead of CIDR, so I just continued using those terms of reference, or perpetuating the obsolete terminology if you want to look at it that way.

x.x.x.x/8 is Class A and x.x.x.x/16, Class B...... Nothing obsolete about that

 

[ic]

x.x.x.x/8 is Class A and x.x.x.x/16, Class B...... Nothing obsolete about that

It's like IPv6, the world should have converted to IPv6 by now, but it hasn't - the same with Class A & B & C - we should be speaking in CIDR terms...

 

[vodacom3g]

It's like IPv6, the world should have converted to IPv6 by now, but it hasn't - the same with Class A & B & C - we should be speaking in CIDR terms...

Don't forget D and E....

 

[ic]

Don't forget D and E....

Unable to compute...

 

[morkhans]

I agree with not being charged for a dynamic routeable IP, but I am quite happy with a reasonable fee being attached to a static IP service. I have a few client who would be able to use a service like that. I can however see Vodacom's problem in allocating dynamic routeable IPs if they have 5 million "always-on" devices floating around, a number that is not getting any less.

The one debate with putting everyone onto to the unrestricted apn is security in my mind. Vodacom does seem to be the only ISP making people sign indemnity forms. Which is hopefully creating some awareness, or at least getting people to give it some thought. I have not seen any ADSL providers requesting this. Are most people with ADSL relying on their router to protect them? With 3G the IP terminates on your machine which potentially puts you at a lot more risk (if you are not cautious).

What has kept me spyware and virus free so far (touch wood) is:

• Regular windows updates
• Avoiding questionable sites
• Avoiding warez/cracks and the likes
• Avoid installing endless free apps/desktop toys (remember bonzai buddy?) and nifty browers toolbars (FF or IE)
• Firefox
• Windows firewall (I don't trust it, but I do use it)

If you suddenly find your Windows mobile device with a routeable IP how long do you think it will take before you suddenly need a Firewall, Anti-Virus/Spyware on it? Mobile AV has been around for a bit, but has anyone actually bought it?

 

[vodacom3g]

morkhans, all valid points and nicely put. Just shows that there's never a simple answer....

 

[Prometheus]

You might wonder why we just not leave them on the apn, but in addition of potentially using scarse IP's, they also use up other resources on the network, purely by being provisioned. Also, we now have to duplicate (very expensive) backend systems that manage IP comms (proxies, virus scanners, etc.)

Where are these?

My suggestion, to Vodacom, would be to get IPv6 operational ASAP, involve forumites in BETA testing, start by creating IPv6 APNs for internetvpn and unrestricted, e.g. ipv6.internetvpn and ipv6.unrestricted that BETA testers can be provisioned for and assist with testing.

Well when (if) ipv6 finally becomes available there won't be a need for a vpn and it would make more sense just to add an ipv6 apn. But from what I understand ipv6 is designed to work alongside legacy ipv4 systems so a separate apn shouldn't be needed anyway.

5 million concurrent users maybe?

And that's today, what's it going to look like in the (near) future as more phones have GPRS on, by default?

Bio, I would never assume 'all users are stupid'. But you also need to understand (and give credit) that we also think about these problems and try and find solutions that'll work for everyone.

I think, as is often the case, that people tend to forget the sheer scale of the monster we need to work with. Telkom have a few hundred thousand concurrent users, I saw MTN said the other day they have around 3 million and I know we're around 5 bar. (remember any phone that's provisioned for data can (and normally do) attach to the network and use up an IP.

So we already need around 80 Class B's or 1 class A. Thus the NATed 10.x.x.x.

5 million "concurrent" users? Surely this is not the case that they are all on the grps/3G network and using ips.

Also, consider the security benefits of not having a public IP. Since you pay for each byte you receive, you will also be paying for someone to hack you.

That would be easy to solve simply by not charging per byte. If they can do it on blackberry for R79 there is no reason their R389+ paying customers should not have that right too.

 

[Csnoopy]

Unable to compute...

No wonder look at the time!