Sunette Bridges facebook hate speech case

[saturnz]

dude/dudet - that tool is NOT used to measure the effectiveness of those policies.

you don't listen hey, I told you about the parliamentary committee hearings, when there is an invitation addressing inequality, I suggest you either attend the hearings or read the reports that come out of those hearings and tell me again if it is used or not used.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

who's the richest guy in south africa again? yes more white people are better off than most black people, but it's not clear cut, is it?

Yeah, it kinda is. It's irrelevant that there are super rich black people or poor white people. They're outliers. We're talking about the vast majority of the racial group, not single individuals.

Now, when it comes to things like BEE I'd like those super rich black folk not to be included as it entrenches class wealth and doesn't help broaden and grow the wealth of those who need it.

Sorry, not sure what you are saying here. That's not how what works? I'm saying the gini-coefficient tool is not the right method for the job, because it does not take race into account, which is what we are discussing, not?

No, you said it "will only be accurate if all poor people are black, and all rich people are white." These measurement tools don't work like that, because societies don't work like that. We're talking the majority and approximate numbers, not literally everyone.

 

[faniebraai]

you don't listen hey, I told you about the parliamentary committee hearings, when there is an invitation addressing inequality, I suggest you either attend the hearings or read the reports that come out of those hearings and tell me again if it is used or not used.

ok, you don't understand me.

let me ask you this question: does the tool measure the inequality of wealth between black and white?

 

[saturnz]

I'm saying the gini-coefficient tool is not the right method for the job, because it does not take race into account, which is what we are discussing, not?

So you are saying the gini coefficient cannot be modified?

 

[faniebraai]

Yeah, it kinda is. It's irrelevant that there are super rich black people or poor white people. They're outliers. We're talking about the vast majority of the racial group, not single individuals.

Now, when it comes to things like BEE I'd like those super rich black folk not to be included as it entrenches class wealth and doesn't help broaden and grow the wealth of those who need it.

it kinda isn't, if it was, then there would've been no rich blacks, and no poor whites. but let's agree to disagree and move on.

On the BEE point, totally agree with you. Also these share schemes, like Nedbank had Eyethu, which was only for black people is not fair. If they want to create wealth, then let in poor people, don't base it on race. <- And since most poors are black, that wouldn't be a problem, right?

No, you said it "will only be accurate if all poor people are black, and all rich people are white." These measurement tools don't work like that, because societies don't work like that. We're talking the majority and approximate numbers, not literally everyone.

well, i don't agree that a tool that does not take race into account, is used to measure the efficiency of a policy which directly talks about race inequality. that's all i'm saying.

 

[faniebraai]

ok, you don't understand me.

let me ask you this question: does the tool measure the inequality of wealth between black and white?

So you are saying the gini coefficient cannot be modified?

first answer my previous question.

 

[saturnz]

the gini coefficient measures inequality

it is a global measure, and only in this country is wealth divided along racial lines in such a marked fashion, and so such a statistic that you require would only be relevant in this country.

if you look at the methodology in calculating the gini co-efficient you will see it is very easily adaptable, unless ofcourse you disagree

 

[faniebraai]

the gini coefficient measures inequality

it is a global measure, and only in this country is wealth divided along racial lines in such a marked fashion, and so such a statistic that you require would only be relevant in this country.

if you look at the methodology in calculating the gini co-efficient you will see it is very easily adaptable, unless ofcourse you disagree

yes, it measures inequality - of wealth

another question - do the government use it as is, or did they easily adapt it?

 

[saturnz]

yes, it measures inequality - of wealth

another question - do the government use it as is, or did they easily adapt it?

like I said, read the parliamentary reports which deal with policy on inequality

 

[faniebraai]

like I said, read the parliamentary reports which deal with policy on inequality

i don't know, that's why I ask. If you have access to these reports, do you mind posting an excerpt from it?

 

[nightjar]

On Friday the Roodepoort Magistrate’s Court sentenced Simon Phillips, 39, to a two-year prison term, suspended for five years on condition that he works at the mortuary section of the Chris Hani-Baragwanath Hospital for a total of 720 hours.
This was after the same court found Phillips guilty of crimen injuria last month.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...s-death-sentence-for-calling-woman-the-k-word

I cannot believe that any white would be so stupid as to use language like that today.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

it kinda isn't, if it was, then there would've been no rich blacks, and no poor whites. but let's agree to disagree and move on.

No, because as I said, no society works like that, and especially ours.

On the BEE point, totally agree with you. Also these share schemes, like Nedbank had Eyethu, which was only for black people is not fair. If they want to create wealth, then let in poor people, don't base it on race. <- And since most poors are black, that wouldn't be a problem, right?

Yeah, I like a social economic empowerment (SEE) mindset more. It's similar to the way UCT's new applications work. Do it in a way that uplifts all those who need it, and because black folk are most affected by it, it will necessarily include them the most.

well, i don't agree that a tool that does not take race into account, is used to measure the efficiency of a policy which directly talks about race inequality. that's all i'm saying.

The tool measures inequality, and this country's inequality is focused along racial lines, because of our past. What's difficult to understand here?

 

[saturnz]

i don't know, that's why I ask. If you have access to these reports, do you mind posting an excerpt from it?

I already gave you relevant links. I am not going to answer one question and then you ask another. It is clear you do not know much about the decision making process in government, and I don't get paid to educate people to such an extent.

 

[faniebraai]

No, because as I said, no society works like that, and especially ours.

On the BEE point, totally agree with you. Also these share schemes, like Nedbank had Eyethu, which was only for black people is not fair. If they want to create wealth, then let in poor people, don't base it on race. <- And since most poors are black, that wouldn't be a problem, right?

Yeah, I like a social economic empowerment (SEE) mindset more. It's similar to the way UCT's new applications work. Do it in a way that uplifts all those who need it, and because black folk are most affected by it, it will necessarily include them the most.




The tool measures inequality, and this country's inequality is focused along racial lines, because of our past. What's difficult to understand here?

You really screwed up the quoting now

I like SEE. Finally we agree on something lol

The tool measures inequality of income: "The Gini coefficient (also known as the Gini index or Gini ratio) (/dʒini/ jee-nee) is a measure of statistical dispersion intended to represent the income distribution of a nation's residents"

Kovacevic in a review of opportunity Gini coefficient explains that the coefficient estimates how well a society enables its citizens to achieve success in life where the success is based on a person’s choices, efforts and talents, not his background defined by a set of predetermined circumstances at birth, such as, gender, race, place of birth, parent's income and circumstances beyond the control of that individual.

 

[faniebraai]

I already gave you relevant links. I am not going to answer one question and then you ask another. It is clear you do not know much about the decision making process in government, and I don't get paid to educate people to such an extent.

awesome. and i don't get paid to run this country. so you don't want to back up what you state with facts? awesome, thanks for participating.

 

[saturnz]

awesome. and i don't get paid to run this country. so you don't want to back up what you state with facts? awesome, thanks for participating.

you have no facts and you want to try and discredit the gini co-efficient, something you only heard of yesterday. you are as apathetic as they come and your only purpose here is to try and win this argument

 

[MickeyD]

you have no facts and you want to try and discredit the gini co-efficient, something you only heard of yesterday. you are as apathetic as they come and your only purpose here is to try and win this argument

What argument? That Sunette Bridget makes racial/racist remarks?

 

[faniebraai]

you have no facts and you want to try and discredit the gini co-efficient, something you only heard of yesterday. you are as apathetic as they come and your only purpose here is to try and win this argument

yes, i only heard of it yesterday, and i have read up on it, do you want me to quote my sources? all you have given me is the government website with no specific references that they are using that method in a modified way. don't get all uppity now.

 

[saturnz]

What argument? That Sunette Bridget makes racial/racist remarks?

he essentially asked how does one measure inequality, I answered that, he asked how to participate in government, I answered that, he asked when does government stop with inequality policies, I answered that too

now he is basically repeating the same questions, so now we are going in circles

 

[faniebraai]

he essentially asked how does one measure inequality, I answered that, he asked how to participate in government, I answered that, he asked when does government stop with inequality policies, I answered that too

now he is basically repeating the same questions, so now we are going in circles

no, go back and read again. we were specifically talking about the inequality of income based on race. you gave me a tool that measures income, but which exclusively states that it excludes race.