crysis
Expert Member
I think a better way to judge the 86 is to show me a better car for less money! Any one think they can do that?
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The 86 has arrived :D
- Thread starter Fazda
- Start date
Quantum Theory
Executive Member
/thread
Fazda
Honorary Master
This makes a great deal of sense.
The "Sports Car" was "invented" by the Brits in the 40's and 50's when the point was to develop a car that was affordable with respect to the man in the street, and one that handled far better than the saloons of the time - this led to MG, Austin Healey and even Jaguar - an XK 120 was actually cheap enough to be bought by anyone back then. In the early 60's we had the MG Midget and Austin Healey Sprite which had 1300cc engines but were able to outperform almost any saloon car at the time, simply because they had better road holding - not because they had giant killer engines.
Talking about Giant killers - the early Mini Cooper S gave Mk 2 jaguars a run for their money on the track, for exactly the same reason.
As far as purists go, the 86 and BRZ will fall exactly into the correct slot.
Haldex
Expert Member
The fact that you comparing the 86 to porsche caymans BMW 1Ms ect already means that the car is a success, becuase YOU, a person trying to justify the reasons of hating the vehicle cannot find a well priced eqivalent. In order words you are comparing it with cars double the price, while we at why dont we all buy aston martins and mclarens hmmmm? im sure they are better than the 86 too. No wait lets drag with F-18s ? now im sounding silly isnt? well thats exactly how you sound you just unaware of it. Besides those cars are built for speed not fun, try having fun in an 1M in SA and you going to hit a pothole and DIE. If you survive you going to get arrested lol because those cars will only get entertaining at a very high speed.
The engine is not a dud, if you heard it you would know. Yes it requires to be pushed up in high revs HOWEVER, thats not because the engine is a dud its because of the exhaust. The car has 2 catalytic converters to process the emissions, hence why there isnt any co2 tax (well techinically its included in the price). If you were to take it to an exhaust shop and install 2 free flow exhausts you would boost this car's power by almost 30 kW. Also keep in mind that the car is designed to be green and sporty at the same time.
If you seriously think the engine is a dud and uses old technology I suggest you go read up. The engine revs up 8000rpm (give or take), its a 2 litre and has 4 cyclinders. It pushes out almost the same power as VW's 2.0.l TURBO CHARGED engine which red lines at about 6000rpm. Now if you remove toyota's environmental fittings and do the software mod this car's power will exceed a GTI. Furthermore the car is light so it has a very high kW/weight ratio and in terms of going fast, thats the most important aspect. Sure a GTI will probably smash this 86 in a drag race if both are factory standard, but in real racing terms (even drag) the GTI would stand no chance. Once you turbo charge the 86 (so it would be in the same class as the turbo charged VW) the 86 will smash that VW hands down. If you did some small mods you can bump the 86's power to about 230kW in a car thats less that 1.2 tons. Oh plus you will look so much cooler in a 86 than a GTI.
GTI = another idiot performing in a bread loaf looking car
86 = Wanted to perform like a GTI idiot, but used his brains to look cooler in a proper 2 door sports coupe that was cheaper.
So before you class the engineering of this vehicle use your brains first
I simply love the concept of the 86, this way people like me who can afford a porsche dont have to bust my head over running costs and can still be epicalso toyota is far easier to play with modding than a porsche after warranty and motor plan and all that rubbish. I bet if this car had a BMW badge it would be sold out before it even came to SA ... and would have a 700k tag on it
Dafuq??????????????????:wtf::erm:
You know NOTHING about cars, no wonder you like this thing, be gone!!
Haldex
Expert Member
Ahhh a decent post.
I do agree with this somewhat, but the hot hatch killed the "sports car" already. This is not going to save it.
Also those old sportscars, which I do appreciate for what they are, were nice, elegant and sophisticated cars, they had personality and charisma, all of which the 86 lacks.
This car needs to revive the old small engined sportscar, its failed somewhat with the perfomance, Ive heard that the 0 - 100 time was clocked at 9.5s on the highveld, WTF?? Seriously??
But alas, lets hope this pos car does variably well, lets hope it opens a gap in the market and lets hope other manufacturers start competing in this segment so we can get some proper baby sports-cars.
Haldex
Expert Member
It has its own segment at the moment, many journos compare it to the MX5, Cayman, Tiburon etc.
I guess it would come down to the term "better" the Kia Koup is not that bad of an option, minus the FWD, it would be the better option lol!!
Theres alot of cars you can buy in the R250 000 - R350 000 range, the Toy 86 is definitely not the best.
The definition of irony.
unskinnybob
Expert Member
Tripple post? You know you can multi-quote, right?
You really base your posts on nothing other than your apparent very limited opinion? You're just outright flaming a car you haven't even driven.
Why?
You really base your posts on nothing other than your apparent very limited opinion? You're just outright flaming a car you haven't even driven.
Why?
Fazda
Honorary Master
You are obviously talking about yourself here.
crysis
Expert Member
Care to name a car that is BETTER than the 86 as a sports car in that range?
Fazda
Honorary Master
RiaX
Executive Member
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Wow ... It claims I know nothing. What a pathetic excuse of a person, basing his so called "truth" on his personal view. Claiming others dont know anything yet he provides zero counter details, epic debating skills
Kia Koup? are you stupid? firstly comparing a FWD car to a RWD drive car is like comparing an apple and an orange. Anyways lets go with this, sure the KIA is cheaper more practical and even looks good, though you say the 86's engine is sad yet you approve of the lower powered KIA? perhaps it would be a competitor in the market if it came in SA like its original design i.e. supercharged.
Next point you stated. They dont make hyundai tiburons anymore you got to buy them second hand, so you can compare second hand hyundai's to second hand 86's ... oh wait there arent any yet what a shame.
If you think a cayman for the price of a 86, then you probably the biggest idiot alive. Unlike you I can afford to buy both these cars brand new and since you know soo much about cars please enlighten me on the service and running costs of a PORSCHE. If you can afford a brand new 86 but you cant afford a brand new porsche cayman and you buy the cayman second hand, you better plan to get a promotion very soon. You probably dont even know that porsche's motorplan is subject to your mileage on the vehicle. Also when buying a second hand sports car you must know that every kilometer that car has done has been a hard earned one.
Now you quoted my freeflow exhaust point. Shall I tell you how improved exhaust systems improve the car's performance? or would you prefer to google it.
Then you highlight my "in terms of real racing..." , you know performing like a moron on the road isnt racing right? In a proper track event you cant race a normally aspirated vehicle against a turbo charged one, its a simple concept. You have to match the class of the vehicle something which you have clearly shown you dont understand.
Come now show me you arent another ignorant fool on the internet with an IQ less than a 100. Please provide an alternative vehicle for the 86. One that meets the following specs:
1) Front engined RWD
2) 2.0 litre normally aspirated
3) priced around R300 000 BRAND NEW
4) production vehicle
5) 2 door coupe not sedan not hatch but yes a coupe
6) promoting 140 odd kW with a fuel economy of around 8l / 100km
7) and is a 2 + 2 seater (you can argue as much as you want that the backseat isnt useful but the fact remains its still there)
Kia Koup? are you stupid? firstly comparing a FWD car to a RWD drive car is like comparing an apple and an orange. Anyways lets go with this, sure the KIA is cheaper more practical and even looks good, though you say the 86's engine is sad yet you approve of the lower powered KIA? perhaps it would be a competitor in the market if it came in SA like its original design i.e. supercharged.
Next point you stated. They dont make hyundai tiburons anymore you got to buy them second hand, so you can compare second hand hyundai's to second hand 86's ... oh wait there arent any yet what a shame.
If you think a cayman for the price of a 86, then you probably the biggest idiot alive. Unlike you I can afford to buy both these cars brand new and since you know soo much about cars please enlighten me on the service and running costs of a PORSCHE. If you can afford a brand new 86 but you cant afford a brand new porsche cayman and you buy the cayman second hand, you better plan to get a promotion very soon. You probably dont even know that porsche's motorplan is subject to your mileage on the vehicle. Also when buying a second hand sports car you must know that every kilometer that car has done has been a hard earned one.
Now you quoted my freeflow exhaust point. Shall I tell you how improved exhaust systems improve the car's performance? or would you prefer to google it.
Then you highlight my "in terms of real racing..." , you know performing like a moron on the road isnt racing right? In a proper track event you cant race a normally aspirated vehicle against a turbo charged one, its a simple concept. You have to match the class of the vehicle something which you have clearly shown you dont understand.
Come now show me you arent another ignorant fool on the internet with an IQ less than a 100. Please provide an alternative vehicle for the 86. One that meets the following specs:
1) Front engined RWD
2) 2.0 litre normally aspirated
3) priced around R300 000 BRAND NEW
4) production vehicle
5) 2 door coupe not sedan not hatch but yes a coupe
6) promoting 140 odd kW with a fuel economy of around 8l / 100km
7) and is a 2 + 2 seater (you can argue as much as you want that the backseat isnt useful but the fact remains its still there)
Fazda
Honorary Master
Nice answer RiaX -
i went to look at the 86 during lunch time today... absolutely stunning... even worse, i can afford one too... 
could get to test drive one since they were all sold already. Does anyone know if there are any dealers in CPT that offer test drives?
that would really clinch it for me, although i would probably wait for the higher trim...
could get to test drive one since they were all sold already. Does anyone know if there are any dealers in CPT that offer test drives?
that would really clinch it for me, although i would probably wait for the higher trim...
Fazda
Honorary Master
i went to look at the 86 during lunch time today... absolutely stunning... even worse, i can afford one too...
could get to test drive one since they were all sold already. Does anyone know if there are any dealers in CPT that offer test drives?
that would really clinch it for me, although i would probably wait for the higher trim...
The chances of finding a demo vehicle are very slim as we have all pre-sold our cars.
i'll take my wife to see it later this week, and will probably order one without driving it then...
@fazda: can one pre-order a high spec model in a specific colour and what would the waiting period be like?
i see in one of your earlier posts you also mentioned 0% financing options, what's the required deposit for that?
@fazda: can one pre-order a high spec model in a specific colour and what would the waiting period be like?
i see in one of your earlier posts you also mentioned 0% financing options, what's the required deposit for that?
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Fazda
Honorary Master
You can certainly pre-order a high spec in a colour of your choice - I have red auto ordered that way. You are looking at early to mid August delivery, depending on the availability of the colour you want.
Apologies about the 0% offer, it's only on 7 models that are currently on special, and NOT on the 86 - I had my wires crossed when I mentioned it. That is a 35% deposit and the balance over 36 months.
The fact that you comparing the 86 to porsche caymans BMW 1Ms ect already means that the car is a success, becuase YOU, a person trying to justify the reasons of hating the vehicle cannot find a well priced eqivalent. In order words you are comparing it with cars double the price, while we at why dont we all buy aston martins and mclarens hmmmm? im sure they are better than the 86 too. No wait lets drag with F-18s ? now im sounding silly isnt? well thats exactly how you sound you just unaware of it. Besides those cars are built for speed not fun, try having fun in an 1M in SA and you going to hit a pothole and DIE. If you survive you going to get arrested lol because those cars will only get entertaining at a very high speed.
The engine is not a dud, if you heard it you would know. Yes it requires to be pushed up in high revs HOWEVER, thats not because the engine is a dud its because of the exhaust. The car has 2 catalytic converters to process the emissions, hence why there isnt any co2 tax (well techinically its included in the price). If you were to take it to an exhaust shop and install 2 free flow exhausts you would boost this car's power by almost 30 kW. Also keep in mind that the car is designed to be green and sporty at the same time.
If you seriously think the engine is a dud and uses old technology I suggest you go read up. The engine revs up 8000rpm (give or take), its a 2 litre and has 4 cyclinders. It pushes out almost the same power as VW's 2.0.l TURBO CHARGED engine which red lines at about 6000rpm. Now if you remove toyota's environmental fittings and do the software mod this car's power will exceed a GTI. Furthermore the car is light so it has a very high kW/weight ratio and in terms of going fast, thats the most important aspect. Sure a GTI will probably smash this 86 in a drag race if both are factory standard, but in real racing terms (even drag) the GTI would stand no chance. Once you turbo charge the 86 (so it would be in the same class as the turbo charged VW) the 86 will smash that VW hands down. If you did some small mods you can bump the 86's power to about 230kW in a car thats less that 1.2 tons. Oh plus you will look so much cooler in a 86 than a GTI
GTI = another idiot performing in a bread loaf looking car
86 = Wanted to perform like a GTI idiot, but used his brains to look cooler in a proper 2 door sports coupe that was cheaper.
So before you class the engineering of this vehicle use your brains first
I simply love the concept of the 86, this way people like me who can afford a porsche dont have to bust my head over running costs and can still be epic
Riax,
Firstly I really do like the car, looks awesome. However,
Your comment on increasing the power by up to 30Kw by removing the cat and installing a freeflow, please point me to the exhaust shop that can produce those types of gains, cause they work magic and they need to work on my RS.....
A custom turbo kit for the 86 will cost you an arm and a leg, and you would lose any maintanance and if you plan on doing all the mods out of maintanance you will have nightmares with custom tuning and finding a tuner to handle the car for you, not only that, by that time there will be better cars on the market and you will be looking at trading. If you want a fast car, BUY a fast car!
Small mods will not take this car to 230Kw, you are talking a 90Kw (65%) increase in power on a NA motor. that would take massive modifications, gas flowing, turbo charging, yada yada yada. Hope you have deep pockets, also have not seen any wkw ratings or aftermarket parts.
Although not the same class, if I was looking for a fun to drive NA car that was awesome on the track, I would pocket 50K and buy the Renault Clio RS (yes I know service sucks), I have great service with my R26 LTD so guess it depends on your relationship with the dealer, had shocking experiences with Audi and my A6.
I just can't find a good enough reason to drop 300+ on this car, sorry. I like it just not that much....
edit, Sorry forgot to add, the GTI, R26 and R27 have CAT's in fact I think all modern cars do, so in that case if I remove the cats and place software on those cars they will far outperform a modded 86, remember a turbo'd motor has way more tuning potential than an NA motor. I have learned my lesson and prefer turbo'ed motors, way more fun.
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crysis
Expert Member
Lots of exhaust places can decat your car. Infact, if your clever, you will use the stock exhaust and get them to decat it, and make it not sound like a piece of s##t.
Oh and haldex, lets not forget that the cayman didnt even have a limited slip diff, until 2009.
I test drove it today, waiting to see what they will give me for my trade in, no its not very powerful, but it is a lot of fun, its simple, and pure, i doubt it will cost a fortune or be an extreme headache once warranty expires either, I'm trying to convince myself not to, but I just cant.