The Banting/LCHF Thread

Sinbad said:
Berries are a special case. Fruit in general is not good for you. Far too much sugar.
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Well now, you never said berries are a "special case". Your position was, and I quote: "The idea that fruit is necessary, even good for you, is completely misguided propaganda intended to bolster agricultural industry in the states." Therefore that is the position you must stand by, and that position is the wrong one. There are other examples of similar such studies, but I guess they're all just "special cases", in which case your argument loses any meaning whatsoever.
 
Arietans said:
Fruit is the food pyramid??
Do you reject any science that says fruit is good for you?
Do you avoid fruit?
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Yes , I avoid fruit. Don't like it, don't like how it makes me feel.
I think the sugar in fruit way outweighs any possible good there is in it.
And remember, we are not evolved to eat fruit regularly. It was available maybe one month a year, before the advent of refrigeration and fast transport. We don't need it.
Science can find any outcome you pay the scientists enough to find.
 
the_jadester said:
Well now, you never said berries are a "special case". Your position was, and I quote: "The idea that fruit is necessary, even good for you, is completely misguided propaganda intended to bolster agricultural industry in the states." Therefore that is the position you must stand by, and that position is the wrong one. There are other examples of similar such studies, but I guess they're all just "special cases", in which case your argument loses any meaning whatsoever.
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Sorry I didn't post my entire position in one post from my phone.

If you want to eat a bunch of fruit every day that's your prerogative but then don't say you're low carbing because you aren't really.
 
starrynight said:
I have to agree with you 100%......can't believe how rude & aggro some people here can be. At least you are not :)
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Yeah. I'm an a55hole. One who is sick of the same story over and over again.

Don't come in here and troll with your zomg fat is bad and fruit is good bull. Heard it all before, it's wrong for people doing low carb properly...
And this is tame. Come visit tk sometime.
 
Sinbad said:
Yeah. I'm an a55hole. One who is sick of the same story over and over again.

Don't come in here and troll with your zomg fat is bad and fruit is good bull. Heard it all before, it's wrong for people doing low carb properly...
And this is tame. Come visit tk sometime.
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How on earth can I be a troll when I have said nary a word about either "zomg" fat or fruit. You really don't have a clue what my views are on either. All I have picked up on this thread is the bad attitude. Somebody asked a question & got blasted, not very nice at all. Equally not very nice the name calling.
 
starrynight said:
How on earth can I be a troll when I have said nary a word about either "zomg" fat or fruit. You really don't have a clue what my views are on either. All I have picked up on this thread is the bad attitude. Somebody asked a question & got blasted, not very nice at all. Equally not very nice the name calling.
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That's not name calling :-)
 
OK

I'm on a PC now, let me put my previous answers into a bit more context, since people seem to have issues with the way I put things when typing on swype :p

the_jadester said:
First, a question: I started banting on the 2nd of February (last Monday) and to date I've lost 3 1/5 kilos. Is that normal given everyone's experiences here?
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Depending on the amount you have to lose, yes this completely normal. A large part of your initial weight loss is water. Your body, when you're not low carbing, stores glucose in the form of glycogen, which includes water in the chemical makeup. As you begin lowcarbing, you deplete your glycogen stores, and that water is excreted.
Second, I think the problem with banting and what gets everyone worried is the high fat part of it. I think there needs to be a differentiation between trans and saturated "bad" fats and good fats. Eg you cannot compare a cupcake with an avocado, although both are high in fat. Bad fats are what will kill you, whereas good fats have been consumed by humans for centuries.
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Trans fats are indeed evil. They're man-made, manufactured and just nasty. Natural fats are just fine. Your body can deal with them perfectly well. The problem with a cupcake is not the fat in it, it's the carboydrates - the sugar and flour.
Also, everything is about moderation. If you are going to pig out on fat - or anything for that matter - it won't be good for you. The key is to do everything in moderation. Eg if I am going to be eating cheese (fat) today in my salad, I won't be cooking my chicken breast (protein) in butter but in 0 calorie, 0 carb Spray & Cook instead.
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Nope, not everything is about moderation, actually. You can freely use butter, rather than tasteless spray and cook, even if you ate loads of cheese. If you're lowcarbing correctly, most of your body's energy intake will come from fat (70% of the calories you consume). If you don't eat enough of that, you won't be getting enough nutrition and your metabolism will slow down to adjust. That equates to slower weight loss.
Third, the one thing I disagree with Noakes on is his stance regarding fruit. His diet would have you eating fruit scarcely, if at all. Like is the case with fats, not all carbs are bad. The carbs in eg a banana are good carbs. Fruit, even if it has some carbs, is overwhelmingly full of other nutrients that is good for your body and general well-being. I think eating fruit is important to overall health but again, as the general rule goes, everything in moderation.
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Fruit isn't overwhelmingly full of other nutrients. It is overwhelmingly full of fructose though. Fructose is a glycemic carb. If you're low-carbing, having fruit WILL perpetuate your carb cravings and will mess with your blood sugar balance. The harm this does, especially if you're syndrome x (pre diabetic), goes far beyond the loss of a couple of micronutrients. Take a vitamin pill if you're concerned.


I am a carb addict. Many people i know are also carb addicts. It's so easy to fall off the wagon - and something as simple as a piece of fruit can do that. Been there, done that.

I hope this answers your questions better, and clarifies what may be perceived as hostility but is in fact just "gatvolness" of the misinformation (as I said in my first response, in fact.)
Nothing i have posted here is new - all this information is previously given in this thread. It's only good etiquette to read before you post........
 
starrynight said:
Well good because I would hate to imagine I in any way, shape or form had any similarities at all to a troll :cry:
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I apologise, the comment was a general one, not aimed at you specifically. I should not have quoted your post.
 
Sinbad said:
OK

I'm on a PC now, let me put my previous answers into a bit more context, since people seem to have issues with the way I put things when typing on swype :p


Depending on the amount you have to lose, yes this completely normal. A large part of your initial weight loss is water. Your body, when you're not low carbing, stores glucose in the form of glycogen, which includes water in the chemical makeup. As you begin lowcarbing, you deplete your glycogen stores, and that water is excreted.

Trans fats are indeed evil. They're man-made, manufactured and just nasty. Natural fats are just fine. Your body can deal with them perfectly well. The problem with a cupcake is not the fat in it, it's the carboydrates - the sugar and flour.

Nope, not everything is about moderation, actually. You can freely use butter, rather than tasteless spray and cook, even if you ate loads of cheese. If you're lowcarbing correctly, most of your body's energy intake will come from fat (70% of the calories you consume). If you don't eat enough of that, you won't be getting enough nutrition and your metabolism will slow down to adjust. That equates to slower weight loss.


Fruit isn't overwhelmingly full of other nutrients. It is overwhelmingly full of fructose though. Fructose is a glycemic carb. If you're low-carbing, having fruit WILL perpetuate your carb cravings and will mess with your blood sugar balance. The harm this does, especially if you're syndrome x (pre diabetic), goes far beyond the loss of a couple of micronutrients. Take a vitamin pill if you're concerned.


I am a carb addict. Many people i know are also carb addicts. It's so easy to fall off the wagon - and something as simple as a piece of fruit can do that. Been there, done that.

I hope this answers your questions better, and clarifies what may be perceived as hostility but is in fact just "gatvolness" of the misinformation (as I said in my first response, in fact.)
Nothing i have posted here is new - all this information is previously given in this thread. It's only good etiquette to read before you post........
Click to expand...

Thanks for all of your replies, I do appreciate your input :)
 
Sinbad said:
Fruit isn't overwhelmingly full of other nutrients. It is overwhelmingly full of fructose though. Fructose is a glycemic carb. If you're low-carbing, having fruit WILL perpetuate your carb cravings and will mess with your blood sugar balance. The harm this does, especially if you're syndrome x (pre diabetic), goes far beyond the loss of a couple of micronutrients. Take a vitamin pill if you're concerned.


I am a carb addict. Many people i know are also carb addicts. It's so easy to fall off the wagon - and something as simple as a piece of fruit can do that. Been there, done that.
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What do you mean....is fruit bad whilst banting because the carbs therein will cause you to get carb cravings & fall off the wagon or is it bad because of the fructose? Sorry, but I'm also still struggling to get to grips with how banting does work.
 
starrynight said:
What do you mean....is fruit bad whilst banting because the carbs therein will cause you to get carb cravings & fall off the wagon or is it bad because of the fructose? Sorry, but I'm also still struggling to get to grips with how banting does work.
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Fructose is a glycaemic carbohydrate (it affects your blood sugar).
Low carbing works when your body regulates its own blood sugar without you interfering with it. Basically, when you start running on ketones, your body will produce just enough glucose to replace what it needs to use for functions that cannot be run on ketones. Most of your body functions work perfectly well, if not better, on ketones. When you eat something glycaemic, it's converted to glucose in your bloodstream, and that raises your blood sugar. Your body then produces insulin to process this sugar. The glucose is converted to glycogen, which your body stores in muscles and your liver. Your body will run off this fuel in preference to anything except alcohol - so this glycogen basically knocks you out of ketosis, and you have to go through the keto flu again to begin the ketosis process once more while you deplete this store.
If your glycogen stores are full (your body can store about 3 days' worth), any excess glycogen is converted into triglyceride and stored. In your fat cells.
Carbohydrate directly contributes and causes your body to store energy in the form of fat. (disclaimer - non glycaemic carbs do not - this is your fibre)

If you're like me, when your blood sugar drops, you get cravings. You get grumpy, headachey and tired. So you grab more carbs for a quick fix - and it gives you that fix, for an hour or two, then you crash again. Which is why you fall off the wagon. Once you get that sweet relief from the symptoms, it's very hard to commit yourself to going though the pain again. I feel absolutely revolting in the day or two between eating something carby and getting back into ketosis. Fruit does that to me...

The hormone that works in opposition to insulin is glucagon. This hormone stimulates the release of fat (triglycerides) from fat cells and their conversion to ketones. It also stimulates gluconeogenesis to raise blood sugar when it's slightly low - so your body regulates its cravings by itself. You no longer need to eat to keep your blood sugar stable - and that is the huge thing in low carbing.
 
Sinbad said:
Yeah. I'm an a55hole. One who is sick of the same story over and over again.

Don't come in here and troll with your zomg fat is bad and fruit is good bull. Heard it all before, it's wrong for people doing low carb properly...
And this is tame. Come visit tk sometime.
Click to expand...

Sounds like your diet is failing you dude. Need to lower those cortisol levels!
 
Sinbad said:
Yes , I avoid fruit. Don't like it, don't like how it makes me feel.
I think the sugar in fruit way outweighs any possible good there is in it.
And remember, we are not evolved to eat fruit regularly. It was available maybe one month a year, before the advent of refrigeration and fast transport. We don't need it.
Science can find any outcome you pay the scientists enough to find.
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So tomatoes... don't eat them?

Sinbad said:
Nothing to do with diet ;)
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Lol :D
 
Sinbad said:
Sorry I didn't post my entire position in one post from my phone.

If you want to eat a bunch of fruit every day that's your prerogative but then don't say you're low carbing because you aren't really.
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I don't think it's normal to eat a bunch of anything every day personally, fruit included, but I also don't think it's bad for you.
 
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