The Brexit Thread

[Spizz]

If you shout "take back control" enough times all the details and specific issues just fade into mist...

Take back control was a Dominic Cummings designed campaign similar to Bell Pottingers White monopoly capital.

 

[konfab]

Fighting like ferrets in a bag’ as EU tries to plug Brexit cash hole

The UK’s withdrawal from the European Union has left a huge €75bn (£62bn) hole in the bloc’s budget for the next seven years, 2021 to 2027. “And now we are fighting like ferrets in a sack,” said one EU diplomat with a sigh.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ds-to-start-brussels-budget-talks-post-brexit

 

[konfab]

Fighting like ferrets in a bag’ as EU tries to plug Brexit cash hole



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ds-to-start-brussels-budget-talks-post-brexit

I find it painfully funny that Sweden is complaining about having to pay more because they are a rich country and won't receive much in terms of benefits.

Yet they have zero problem doing exactly the same thing to their own people.

Interesting times ahead, as unlike an individual, these countries can choose not to be part of the system.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

Remember folks, this could not have happened without Brexit!

Low-skilled workers to be denied visas under immigration shake-up

The UK's post-Brexit immigration system will deny visas to low-skilled workers, the government has said.

A new points-based system - to be introduced from January 2021 - is intended to end dependence on "cheap labour from Europe".

Ministers claim they will also make it easier for higher-skilled workers to get UK visas.

But critics say the proposals could be an "absolute disaster" for the social care sector, and there are "serious concerns" about the impact on farming.

The Home Office estimates 70% of EU workers currently in the UK would not meet the requirements if applying under the new system.


The salary threshold for skilled migrants will be lowered from £30,000 to £25,600, but those coming to the UK must already have a job offer and speak English.

EU and non-EU nationals will be treated equally with priority given to those with "the greatest talents", such as engineers and scientists.

Also related to Portugal again. No doubt little Napoleon (Macron) will piss all over this...

Portugal considers subsidising UK tourists' post-Brexit healthcare

Portugal is considering offering British tourists subsidised post-Brexit healthcare in an effort to retain their custom in the Algarve, Lisbon and beyond.

It is one of several novel measures being considered by the Portuguese government in an effort to minimise the disruption of Brexit to its economy.

Rita Marques, the tourism minister, said the country was examining a unilateral offer to ensure cover offered by the European health insurance card (Ehic), the EU reciprocal system, can continue if a deal is not struck on it during this year’s trade talks.

She said: “The Portuguese and the UK are the oldest allies in the world and no matter what happens the Portuguese will stand by the British. The British traveller is very important to us.

“We are looking to guarantee this health cover next year. We are currently looking at how often it is used and if it is making a positive impact. We are in the process of testing this and the other ideas right now.

“If these are issues that are important to the British traveller, then we have to go for it. We are trying to minimise the disruption to British tourism.”

 

[buka001]

Remember folks, this could not have happened without Brexit!

Low-skilled workers to be denied visas under immigration shake-up



Also related to Portugal again. No doubt little Napoleon (Macron) will piss all over this...

Portugal considers subsidising UK tourists' post-Brexit healthcare

While this immigration scheme will open doors to many people from South Africa, it will do absolutely nothing to help sectors in the UK such as agriculture and construction.

It is laughable that Boris stakes his reputation on the HS2 project, but is cutting the projects access to labour. How the hell does he think it will be completed on time and under budget if labour costs will skyrocket due to critical shortages?

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

While this immigration scheme will open doors to many people from South Africa, it will do absolutely nothing to help sectors in the UK such as agriculture and construction.

It is laughable that Boris stakes his reputation on the HS2 project, but is cutting the projects access to labour. How the hell does he think it will be completed on time and under budget if labour costs will skyrocket due to critical shortages?

There won't be critical labour shortages if wages rise, which they will. Perhaps such businesses who rely on el cheapo Eastern European labour need to have a think about the sustainability of their business.

 

[buka001]

There won't be critical labour shortages if wages rise, which they will. Perhaps such businesses who rely on el cheapo Eastern European labour need to have a think about the sustainability of their business.

Oh yes you are right, I can totally see all those council house blokes in their grey tracksuit pants finally get out and go pick strawberries from 5am in the morning, 10 hours a day.

Or go out in the wind and put up some scaffold and fix some rebar. Way more comfortable that sitting at home with a Stellar watching Sky Sports and Love Island.

 

[Spizz]

Oh yes you are right, I can totally see all those council house blokes in their grey tracksuit pants finally get out and go pick strawberries from 5am in the morning, 10 hours a day.

Or go out in the wind and put up some scaffold and fix some rebar. Way more comfortable that sitting at home with a Stellar watching Sky Sports and Love Island.

Lol. You saved me the bother. I was going to reply with something similar.

 

[buka001]

Lol. You saved me the bother. I was going to reply with something similar.

Even with our current access to a low skilled job market from the EU we are critically short staffed in the construction industry. British guys don't want to climb scaffold and fix rebar as it is now. Why would they all of a sudden when this comes into force.

Heaven help those on HS2 find labour when this comes into play?

Oh and in before the typical you pay them to little. A guy who puts formwork up earns £60k per annum, with 10 years experience. No degree nothing.

It takes a civil engineer with a masters degree 10-15 years to earn that.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

Oh yes you are right, I can totally see all those council house blokes in their grey tracksuit pants finally get out and go pick strawberries from 5am in the morning, 10 hours a day.

Or go out in the wind and put up some scaffold and fix some rebar. Way more comfortable that sitting at home with a Stellar watching Sky Sports and Love Island.

So who worked the farms and construction sectors before FoM? Aliens?

As a former trade union leader has noted:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1230021002891059200

By the way, on the pay issue: Does a 10% rise in immigration lead to a 2% reduction in wages?

The Bank of England found that a 10% increase in the proportion of foreign born workers in lower paid service jobs was associated with a near 2% fall in average pay for those jobs, when focusing on particular regions.

It found that a 1.88% reduction in pay for semi-skilled and unskilled service workers would be expected to follow, on average, a 10% increase in the proportion of immigrants working in those jobs in a particular region.

Examples of jobs in this category include child minders, cleaners, shop assistants, call centre staff, bar staff and postal workers.

The reduction in average pay for semi-skilled and unskilled service workers is mainly due to a drop in wages for low-paid workers born in the UK. A small part is because immigrants tend to be paid less than native workers, bringing the average down further.

 

[Ancalagon]

I find it painfully funny that Sweden is complaining about having to pay more because they are a rich country and won't receive much in terms of benefits.

Yet they have zero problem doing exactly the same thing to their own people.

Interesting times ahead, as unlike an individual, these countries can choose not to be part of the system.

I didn't realise that, but that is amazing irony.

Sweden to rich bankers: "You should pay more because you are wealthy"
EU to Sweden: "You should pay more because you are wealthy"
Sweden to EU: "No!"

EDIT: Interesting though - what would happen if you were to apply social policies applied at the individual level, like taxes on the wealthy, to countries? Is there any social policy that you would apply to an individual that you would not apply to a country? If not, why not?

 

[Spizz]

So who worked the farms and construction sectors before FoM? Aliens?

I'll tell you what Chris, why don't you answer that?

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

I didn't realise that, but that is amazing irony.

Sweden to rich bankers: "You should pay more because you are wealthy"
EU to Sweden: "You should pay more because you are wealthy"
Sweden to EU: "No!"

EDIT: Interesting though - what would happen if you were to apply social policies applied at the individual level, like taxes on the wealthy, to countries? Is there any social policy that you would apply to an individual that you would not apply to a country? If not, why not?

Indeed:


Haha, it's even funnier when you read about net beneficiaries like Poland (from today's Financial Times)



Lovely sense of entitlement. Poland probably more so than any other country has benefited from being in the EU, transforming itself from a Soviet backwater to where it is today thanks to billions of euros. IIRC, it is the biggest net receiver of EU funds by a country mile.

 

[buka001]

So who worked the farms and construction sectors before FoM? Aliens?

As a former trade union leader has noted:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1230021002891059200

By the way, on the pay issue: Does a 10% rise in immigration lead to a 2% reduction in wages?

Before FoM the UK made extensive use of low skilled workers from India, China etc.

It is literally a question on the Life in the UK test.

The UK has always looked for a low skilled labour market.

 

[surface]

How will this work? Can EU citizens keep UK rights and freedom of movement in london as a exchange?

Sadiq Khan is trying to convince Brussels to let some Brits keep their EU citizenship after Brexit | Businessinsider

London Mayor Sadiq Khan wants the European Union to let some Brits have "associate citizenship" after Brexit.

www.businessinsider.co.za

 

[surface]

Before FoM the UK made extensive use of low skilled workers from India, China etc.

It is literally a question on the Life in the UK test.

The UK has always looked for a low skilled labour market.

The good brit now probably thinking - "Ah - is it how these bloody indians & chinese got here? "

 

[The Voice]

Oh yes you are right, I can totally see all those council house blokes in their grey tracksuit pants finally get out and go pick strawberries from 5am in the morning, 10 hours a day.

Or go out in the wind and put up some scaffold and fix some rebar. Way more comfortable that sitting at home with a Stellar watching Sky Sports and Love Island.

Stella* - if you're going to chav, at least do it properly.

On a serious note, this should've been addressed in 2004 when the Eastern Bloc countries started joining the EU, and their members started flocking to the UK for all those beautiful £££. A doorway was opened, but never properly regulated (if at all), so the large majority of EU nationals currently in the UK, I reckon, are now unskilled labourers. The unskilled labour market was so flooded at a stage there weren't even enough Poles back home to keep their own country afloat, that people out of the country had to pay tax twice.

So, for almost 20 years, dirt cheap labour has been on tap. Before that, who was picking strawberries at 5AM, or putting up scaffolding? I guarantee it wasn't someone from Poland.

Multi millionaire business owners relished the fact that they no longer had to pay British workers a decent salary, because they could get thousands of people in from God knows where to do the work for minimum wage (or less) on zero hour contracts. They were also the first to start crying when just the notion of Brexit came about.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

Before FoM the UK made extensive use of low skilled workers from India, China etc.

It is literally a question on the Life in the UK test.

The UK has always looked for a low skilled labour market.

So what did/do the British unskilled do then? There must be millions of them and no, not all of them will be living off benefits.

The clear disregard you have for the work ethic of the British working class is convenient for your purposes in justifying low-skilled immigration.

Just don't think it matches up in reality.

 

[Spizz]

Before FoM the UK made extensive use of low skilled workers from India, China etc.

It is literally a question on the Life in the UK test.

The UK has always looked for a low skilled labour market.

But Chris doesn't understand how the country has changed so he would have no idea who used to do these jobs. He's off now Googling it since I asked because he can't find it on Twitter. And the chinless wonders he worships wouldn't have a fscking clue either since they've never been near a field. But I can tell you from experience that it was poor working class people. The kind of people who wouldn't work today because as you say, they are on benefits.

When I was a school kid in the late 70s, early 80s, some of my friends summer holidays were working in the fields with their family as what was termed a "working holiday". They were very popular among us poor people although thankfully, I was never made to do with and alongside my mum and dad. It was 4 to 6 weeks of working the fields every day and the parents having a drink and a song and dance at night.

I did however spend many days during many summers picking potatoes form the fields for £3 a day, but that was my and my friends choices to do it for pocket money. There was always lots of foreigners there too. Mostly European Uni age students on working holidays. I don't know if they were legal or not, but they were there.

And now with unemployment at it's lowest for 45 years, how will these roles be filled?

 

[Ancalagon]

Multi millionaire business owners relished the fact that they no longer had to pay British workers a decent salary, because they could get thousands of people in from God knows where to do the work for minimum wage (or less) on zero hour contracts. They were also the first to start crying when just the notion of Brexit came about.

I found it interesting that The Guardian had an article in which businesses were crying about Brexit, saying that costs will go up etc.

What is amazing is that the Guardian didn't take them to task on this, and say, "Well that means you have to pay people a fair wage now, no?"

Because I would have thought that a Left news outlet like The Guardian would be in favour of paying people a fair wage for their work, but apparently membership of the EU comes before paying people a fair wage.

Never thought I'd see a Left paper defend business's desire to make money at the expense of labourers, but they do so because EU uber alles.