The Eredar Initiative

One thing I do agree on, is that players from PVP servers, tend to be better at playing their characters than players on PVE realms. From the moment you are level 1, you have to be on your guard and aware of what and who is around you. PVE players are not really forced to master their individual classes like PVP players are...

Either way... I love playing horde... Nothing like doing a aimed shot on a little gnome sneaking past me in AV. But if you prefer being a nice clean alliance character and being bashed on in PVP... heheh well thats your choice... I cannot force myself to roll an alliance character... NEVER...

HORDE FTW !!!!

Hehe this is true for PVP as you need to be on guard, especially in places like STV where lvl 70 ganking can happen frequently. Overall I certainly gained more skill on pvp vs. when I was on a pve server (may also be the time played too). Aimed shot... Great with it's improvements (pretty much a mortal shot now :p) and omg when scoring a crit! But I still don't use it frequently.
 
I used to be in a PVP guild on an Alliance server. A few of the players decided to move over to horde side for the better PVP. I created an orc lock and level into the 20's and absolutely hated it. I couldn't stand staring at the hunched figure on the screen, it actually gave me a back ache.

I then made the decision to scrap my horde ideas and go back to my Alliance characters. Eventually, the other players also returned. I don't care if horde are better at PVP, even though this would lessen the burden involved with gaining PVP gear, I would rather fight it out on my original Alliance character.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind leveling characters. I have a mage and warr at 70 and a 65 hunter atm. I just don't like horde and refuse to abandon my faction just for the sake of better PVP.

Have a read through the responses of other players in this thread. Those who have played both factions. To them, it's easier to PVP as horde. Simple. I don't need to have leveled a horde character to 70 to see how dominant they are, I see it every time I enter a BG. That makes the times we whoop horde butt in PVP so much sweeter. Nothing beats inspiring the demoralized troops to winning a WSG match after being 2-0 down. That, to me, is what makes PVP worth it.
 
I agree with Cloud

Lvling has always been easy, 6days played on my mage (lvl'd to 60 b4 2.3)
Gonna try for 4 on my priest :p

Although im not much of a pvper,

Gimme an open spot in an active raiding horde guild in ssc/tk, and i might reroll from scratch, otherwise, ill stick with Alliance
 
Cloud you really have no clue

If the ratio was 5:1 alliance vs horde and a significant number of people hopped over to horde, they might shift the ratio to 4:1 (Hypothetical example duh). This would hardly affect the Q times for the remaining alliance but it would significantly increase the percentage of horde that were serious about PvP and therefore give them and advantage in BGs.

This is exactly what happened...deal with it.

People who make statements like "horde is ezmode" tend to be morons. Just like people who make statements like "pallies just bubble hearth" and "all huntards are lootwhores"

The official forums are full of people who spout this kind of **** and think they hardcore cause they got 2 epic items or their guild runs Kara. Sorry your little epeen got bruised

So lets say your reasoning is correct and the Alliance had way more PVP'ers than horde way back when the game started and there was a gross difference in players on each faction. These players then deleted their characters en masse and started horde characters solely to PVP, only to lessen the queue times. I call bullsh1t. The amount of ppl who would have had to do this to satisfy your theory would have had to be substantial. Those PVP'ers who left Alliance to play horde did so because HORDE WERE BETTER AT PVP. Is this concept hard for you to understand?

Even if your crazy theory was correct, that is not a valid reason for explaining why horde have consistently, up to this day, performed better in PVP. Put a bloody poll up and have ppl vote, you will clearly see that horde, in general, are the superior PVP faction.

And if you want to start comparing gear, lets see your epeen epics douchebag. Tired of you taking personal shots at me, I will gladly link my warrior up here for all to see. I have over 36k honorable kills, 4/5 Merciless and Deep Thunder. I have been PVP'ing on my char for as long as I can remember playing the game. I'm talking from personal experience. I don't give a **** about Kara as I'm a PVP'er. I'm also tired of the Alliance sentiment that we are a weaker faction and will not fall over and die like many of my compatriots do. I chose the harder, more challenging route, shoot me.
 
I used to be in a PVP guild on an Alliance server. A few of the players decided to move over to horde side for the better PVP. I created an orc lock and level into the 20's and absolutely hated it. I couldn't stand staring at the hunched figure on the screen, it actually gave me a back ache.

I then made the decision to scrap my horde ideas and go back to my Alliance characters. Eventually, the other players also returned. I don't care if horde are better at PVP, even though this would lessen the burden involved with gaining PVP gear, I would rather fight it out on my original Alliance character.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind leveling characters. I have a mage and warr at 70 and a 65 hunter atm. I just don't like horde and refuse to abandon my faction just for the sake of better PVP.

Have a read through the responses of other players in this thread. Those who have played both factions. To them, it's easier to PVP as horde. Simple. I don't need to have leveled a horde character to 70 to see how dominant they are, I see it every time I enter a BG. That makes the times we whoop horde butt in PVP so much sweeter. Nothing beats inspiring the demoralized troops to winning a WSG match after being 2-0 down. That, to me, is what makes PVP worth it.

I hink there are a lot more reasons people go Horde than the one you choose to overstate. But especially liked when when said "They make your back ache". Reminds me of the issues the kids had in South Park during the WoW episode (best of season 10). But hey, if its worth anything, people join Horde for more reasons beyond PVP. Simple.
All in all it takes about a day to level to 20 and I am dually surprised people can now gather the WHOLE experience in one day. It's like people who briefly play WoW for a day and say its boring and crap. You naturally ignore them eh? But I apologize for the burden of ugly orcs weakening you.
 
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I hink there are a lot more reason people go Horde than the one you choose to overstate. But especially liked when when said "They make your back ache". Reminds me of the issues the kids had in South Park during the WoW episode (best of season 10). But hey, if its worth anything, people join Horde for more reasons beyond PVP. Simple.
All in all it takes about a day to level to 20 and I am dually surprised people can now gather the WHOLE experience in one day. It's like people who briefly play WoW for a day and say its boring and crap. You naturally ignore them eh? But I apologize for the burden of ugly orcs weakening you.

My point is that horde have it easier when it comes to PVP. I'm not saying this is the sole reason for rolling a horde char, obviously it is not.

You don't have to apologize for the ugliness of orcs, some ppl are attracted to the grotesque. This is your personal preference.
 
Tbh i would only roll horde for the pvp

but thats just me
 
"I chose the harder, more challenging route, shoot me."

"I will gladly link my warrior up here for all to see"

You complain that horde is ezmode, yet you play the most ezmode PvP class their is...hitting 2 buttons while someone heals you is serious business

Unfortunately my PvP kills are spread over 4 different 70s and 2 twinks and my mains gear is mostly PvE since I have been raiding endgame content for over 2 years...but yeah those welfare epics are also nice I hear.
 
"I chose the harder, more challenging route, shoot me."

"I will gladly link my warrior up here for all to see"

You complain that horde is ezmode, yet you play the most ezmode PvP class their is...hitting 2 buttons while someone heals you is serious business

Unfortunately my PvP kills are spread over 4 different 70s and 2 twinks and my mains gear is mostly PvE since I have been raiding endgame content for over 2 years...but yeah those welfare epics are also nice I hear.

I also happen to have a mage at 70, specced fire that I use for PVP. Not lol frost. Easymode? Are you kidding? Warrior is probably the WEAKEST class 1v1. I don't go into a BG with a pet healer, I pick my battles and make tactical moves on defense or attack. If someone is kind enough to heal me, thats great, but I spend a large amount of time solo.

2 Twinks, ok, that says a lot about the type of player you are (like to have the odds on your side perhaps?).

Welfare epics my ass. You think it takes skill to run instances? The mobs and bosses chop and change their tactics depending on what you do? When did Blizzard build in this wonderful AI into the game? Farming raid content for gear is the EASIEST way to obtain gear rofl. You go read up some tactic, wash, rinse repeat.

When you have some proper PVP gear and experience you come talk to me again. Stick to what you're good at, raiding and talking out your ass.
 
I also happen to have a mage at 70, specced fire that I use for PVP. Not lol frost. Easymode? Are you kidding? Warrior is probably the WEAKEST class 1v1. I don't go into a BG with a pet healer, I pick my battles and make tactical moves on defense or attack. If someone is kind enough to heal me, thats great, but I spend a large amount of time solo.

2 Twinks, ok, that says a lot about the type of player you are (like to have the odds on your side perhaps?).

Welfare epics my ass. You think it takes skill to run instances? The mobs and bosses chop and change their tactics depending on what you do? When did Blizzard build in this wonderful AI into the game? Farming raid content for gear is the EASIEST way to obtain gear rofl. You go read up some tactic, wash, rinse repeat.

When you have some proper PVP gear and experience you come talk to me again. Stick to what you're good at, raiding and talking out your ass.

Hey the guy made valid points give him credit at the very least. Each class has a general perception attached to them. Hunters quick to level up, warlocks are OP etc etc. Warriors have many but certainly the more prominant is their effectiveness in PVPs. But if you want to preach tactics. Would it really be tactical to not have a healer? I mean that's like saying you would rather 'solo every world elite using my own tactics that don't involve healers'. Healers are the backbone for warriors and vice versa. Without them, you shouldn't be winning as many 1v1s as you claim (especially against locks). But hey, pvp gear (not arena) is considered welfare for your info. And if raiding is so easy???? I'm happy you could do black temple every day... Rinse and repeat.
 
Ah, this is getting old now.

Warrior PVP is not easy if you don't have support. The fact remains that warriors don't always have healers. Do you understand what you are saying, that a warrior cannot function on its own without a healer, and this simply is not the case. When I say I pick my fights I mean against classes like cloth / leather that expose themselves. I can burst a rogue down if the right set of circumstances present themselves for instance, and for this a healer is not needed.

Since you guys are so much into PVE, I had to do heroics to get the mats for my weapon and had to specc Prot for it. Do you realise what a drag it is to specc Prot and tank heroics? This is the only viable specc for warriors in heroics and it sucks. Just thought I would throw that in the mix.

GTFO with your welfare epics, if its so easy to get, why aren't you decked out in em? The arena gear and BG gear together make a set. With the new personal rating of 1850 and 2000 for weapon and shoulders it will become even more competitive and challenging to get the gear. But you know, the PVE vs PVP debate rages on and will probably never die. I just get pissed off when self-proclaimed PVE grinders come on this forum and make bold claims about PVP. Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion but don't come toss your attitude around where it's not wanted. Thats just lame.
 
Ah, this is getting old now.

Warrior PVP is not easy if you don't have support. The fact remains that warriors don't always have healers. Do you understand what you are saying, that a warrior cannot function on its own without a healer, and this simply is not the case. When I say I pick my fights I mean against classes like cloth / leather that expose themselves. I can burst a rogue down if the right set of circumstances present themselves for instance, and for this a healer is not needed.

Since you guys are so much into PVE, I had to do heroics to get the mats for my weapon and had to specc Prot for it. Do you realise what a drag it is to specc Prot and tank heroics? This is the only viable specc for warriors in heroics and it sucks. Just thought I would throw that in the mix.

GTFO with your welfare epics, if its so easy to get, why aren't you decked out in em? The arena gear and BG gear together make a set. With the new personal rating of 1850 and 2000 for weapon and shoulders it will become even more competitive and challenging to get the gear. But you know, the PVE vs PVP debate rages on and will probably never die. I just get pissed off when self-proclaimed PVE grinders come on this forum and make bold claims about PVP. Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinion but don't come toss your attitude around where it's not wanted. Thats just lame.

I am so offended!! :( I wanna.... I wanna cry... I mean pre tbc my warr was high warlord... For the love of all things beautiful I wish that meant something but alas... No wait, I guess your post wasn't for me cos all this time I've been saying I play on a PVP realm. Regardless... I said healers are your backbone i.e. your support. Believe me I reached high warlord without any healers and man it was hard work. Likewise for you I can imagine your grand status required a lot of work. But it doesn't change the fact (and yes it is a fact) that Healers+Tank = Peanut Butter+Jelly Time. Highly tactical warriors understand this...
 
You complain that horde is ezmode, yet you play the most ezmode PvP class their is...hitting 2 buttons while someone heals you is serious business

Hahaha! 2 buttons!!
You would make a terrible warrior.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

My warrior is lvl 39 and i use
Heroic Strike, Overpower, Thunder Clap, Demoralizing Shout, Hamstring, Execute, Death Wish, Intimidating Shout and with some stance dancing i am going to use Intercept and Pummel.

And when you say easy-mode PvP class...you mean group PvP.
Warlock is the easy-mode 1vs1 class.
 
Hahaha! 2 buttons!!
You would make a terrible warrior.
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

My warrior is lvl 39 and i use
Heroic Strike, Overpower, Thunder Clap, Demoralizing Shout, Hamstring, Execute, Death Wish, Intimidating Shout and with some stance dancing i am going to use Intercept and Pummel.

And when you say easy-mode PvP class...you mean group PvP.
Warlock is the easy-mode 1vs1 class.

So very true.... :D

A Lock can just roll his face on the keyboard and win :D
 
Unfortunately my PvP kills are spread over 4 different 70s and 2 twinks and my mains gear is mostly PvE since I have been raiding endgame content for over 2 years...but yeah those welfare epics are also nice I hear.

My post was meant for Cat011. But the_second, give armory link to your warrior plz, i wanna take a look.
 
Now you are really confusing me Cloud. You claimed that horde has it ezmode at PvP. You claimed you play alliance because you like the challenge. You claim horde win BGs because they have better racials...and now you say you run around BGs solo and pick your battles? I guess that makes you a NE warrior shadowmelded behind a bush waiting for someone on 20% to walk by so you can jump them...Maybe the reason you lose BGs is because you dont play as a team. Any warrior running around solo is asking to get pwned

and to you and knater...1v1 isn't what we are talking about...we are talking about PvP BGs..that is all about TEAMWORK. It has nothing to do with gloryboys running around critting people for 5k. Horde has (generally speaking) a smaller community of more PvP minded people who understand the concept of playing as a team.

If you had any clue you would know that all the low lvl BGs are almost exclusively played by twinked toons so the playing field is pretty level

I laugh at your welfare epics because I have a few of my own and I know how many guildmates have bags full of PvP gear that they farmed with a few hours a week.

By your own admission you have zero PvE experience and yet you think you know what its like to raid endgame...ROFLMAO. At least I do both sides at a fairly high level and can comment on both. Endgame PvE gear is FAAAAAR more difficult to acquire. Below is a post from blizzard about the new rating requirement on weapons. Even they realise how ezmode it is to get PvP rewards.

Q: Why do the weapons and shoulders require a personal rating?
A: We found that many high end PvE players felt extremely compelled to obtain the weapons, as given enough time, and without a rating requirement, they’re guaranteed. There’s of course no guarantee that you can obtain the same weapons in PvE for use in PvP, and that discrepancy is the main reason for the change. With the personal rating system we can ensure that there is a milestone or achievement that one has to reach and that they can’t be obtained purely through a slow but steady acquisition of arena points.
 
Now you are really confusing me Cloud. You claimed that horde has it ezmode at PvP. You claimed you play alliance because you like the challenge. You claim horde win BGs because they have better racials...and now you say you run around BGs solo and pick your battles? I guess that makes you a NE warrior shadowmelded behind a bush waiting for someone on 20% to walk by so you can jump them...Maybe the reason you lose BGs is because you dont play as a team. Any warrior running around solo is asking to get pwned

and to you and knater...1v1 isn't what we are talking about...we are talking about PvP BGs..that is all about TEAMWORK. It has nothing to do with gloryboys running around critting people for 5k. Horde has (generally speaking) a smaller community of more PvP minded people who understand the concept of playing as a team.

If you had any clue you would know that all the low lvl BGs are almost exclusively played by twinked toons so the playing field is pretty level

I laugh at your welfare epics because I have a few of my own and I know how many guildmates have bags full of PvP gear that they farmed with a few hours a week.

By your own admission you have zero PvE experience and yet you think you know what its like to raid endgame...ROFLMAO. At least I do both sides at a fairly high level and can comment on both. Endgame PvE gear is FAAAAAR more difficult to acquire. Below is a post from blizzard about the new rating requirement on weapons. Even they realise how ezmode it is to get PvP rewards.

Let me relate a story to you.

I do PVP daily quests to get honor and some gold, I queue for WSG (on my own) and enter the BG. We were 5 warriors, 3 mages, a hunters and a lock. No healers. I needed to win the game so I made an effort to get the flag, where I was continually spat on and taunted by n UD priest who was healing the prot Orc FC warrior. Needless to say, I got really pissed off and started spewing out tactics in BG chat.

We were 2-0 down at that point and the same UD priest was /lol 'ing me as he ran past with the EFC. I got the entire BG to target this priest while I went and got the flag. I ran down the ramp, through the bushes etc. avoiding the horde and managed to find a hiding spot in the Rejuvi hut. Even though we had no healer, we had a fair bit of firepower and managed to nuke the EFC down. I ran up the tunnel, got the speed boost and scored the flag.

We scored one more time while the horde were asleep (obviously thought they had the game in the bag, as usual) and then they woke up. It became an epic battle. But now the Alliance players also believed that we could win the game.

While the rest where blocking the horde at our base, I went to their flag room and nuked down a low-resilience mage (this is not an accomplishment I know, but they to go down fast) and grabbed the flag. I ran my usual cloak and dagger route and found a spot to hide while the rest of the team intercepted the EFC. It took them a good while to get the flag, and at one point my hiding spot was surrounded by horde, but I managed to get back to base after our flag was returned.

I was however, met by an undead shadow priest who grabbed our flag before I could score. I had 50% hp and he started to nuke me down. I got my shield out, and popped shield wall. He was stupid enough to nuke most of his mana down on my shield wall. I popped a HP potion and then reflected his SWD for 1.5k. Another warrior came and destroyed the mana-less priest and returned the flag. I ran to score and a mage jumped down from above nuking but was too late, we had won the match.

This was all done without a healer, and it was probably the most rewarding PVP experience I ever had.

I have a dwarf warrior, and don't only target players under 20%. I die a lot, I'll admit, but I always take one or two down with me. With healing, well, thats a completely different story.

What I'm trying to say here is that playing a warrior on your own can be fun, you don't have to have a healer and it really does improve your ability to play your character. I know there are warriors out there who never play without a healer and this shows when you duel them or meet them in a 1v1 situation.

Twinks, in my experience, run around the BG seeking out low level green geared players and then proceed to destroy them doing /point /rofl /spit. Its the same as the bully mentality, beating on ppl because you can. Uber power trip. If they had twink only BG's that would be understandable, but then you wouldn't see as many twinks around - face it, you twink to beat on weaker players.

Alright, let me comment on your precious, so hard to obtain "elite" raiding epics. I will still smash your face with my "welfare" epics, your sacred raiding gear is useless in PVP without resilience. You relate difficulty to a percentage drop and time invested. It's not difficult to do the same thing over and over, its a bloody routine. You might get lucky and get all your drops way before a PVP player gets his equivalent gear. Similarly, a PVP player who has no skill would only aquire points and honor slowly and get the gear much later than the skilled players.


PVE = Set tactics, and % drop.

PVP = Dynamic tactics, guaranteed drop.

What Blizzard has realised is that PVP players deserve to be rewarded for their efforts, and that is one of the reason Arena was introduced. Now with the personal rating, gear will be more exclusive and reflect someones skill in PVP more accurately.

To PVP successfully, takes a DIFFERENT skill set than entering end-game raiding and clearing the latest instances. In my experience, I find PVE boring as hell, as its formulaic and monotonous. If you enjoy that, great, but don't pretend to know about high level PVP, which you obviously have no clue about.
 
If you've never done a lot of PvE raids it's easy to think it's formulaic and boring when in fact high end PvE is actually incredibly intense because not only is your progression reliant on your ability to play but on your ability to mesh with the 24 other people who are raiding.
I definitely agree it's a different skill set though.
Nihilum proved this when they got WTFPWNED in a 5v5 exhibition match against a dedicated Arena team.
 
For sure, you cant really compare the two.
Its two different areas of the game.
Resilience is everything in arena. But yes, PVE is by far... and I really mean it, by far harder than PVP. Saying you just need to read a guide and you know how to do a boss is err... how do I put it, pretty ignorant.

I really hate what blizzard done to certain aspects of the game with regards to the PVP system and rewards.
In the old days, a high warlord was a INCREDIBLE hard achievement to reach. Honestly, I salute high warlords. The weapons + gear they had access to were so incredibly imba, even me as a PVE player was drooling over them. We had 1 high warlord PVE'ing with high warlord weapons. He was playing a warrior and he murdered our dps charts with his damage output. Nowdays getting PVP epic's is a joke. Hell I am sitting with 5k arena points and I didn't even have to win all my games to get it. In a nutshell, doing PVP you are guaranteed of getting your epic's. Even a n00b that cant kill Gamon in orgri can do his 10 arena games a week and sit with Tier 6 equivalent gear in a few weeks. Same with BG's... go and jump up and down in the AV cave, and if you don't get reported, you still harvest some nice pvp points, which you did'nt even have to work for.

One weekend with double honour AV and you can walk out with loads of epics you can buy with your honour points.

One thing I will state though, a good PVP'er can bring lots of value to a raid force, as PVP'ers have excellent reaction times and are incredibly aware of whats going on around them. Some of the best PVE'rs on our server, is strangely enough old ex-high warlords :)
 
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