The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

[Wyzak]

That would be unconstitutional, in my opinion.

I agree with Gary here, perhaps if you had chosen a better post to quote it would have been different.

It really has nothing to do with SANRAL, a plate-flipper is an illegal device and you will be in deep crap if you are pulled over and they notice it on your vehicle. The only place where SANRAL comes in is that they now have an additional policing force which will be more attentive to this type of crime, so your chances of being caught with a plate-flipper are much higher now.

 

[ToxicBunny]

That would be unconstitutional, in my opinion.

How so?

The device is illegal, it inherently shows intent to obstruct the course of justice.

 

[CAPS LOCK]

I agree with Gary here, perhaps if you had chosen a better post to quote it would have been different.

It really has nothing to do with SANRAL, a plate-flipper is an illegal device and you will be in deep crap if you are pulled over and they notice it on your vehicle. The only place where SANRAL comes in is that they now have an additional policing force which will be more attentive to this type of crime, so your chances of being caught with a plate-flipper are much higher now.

I don't dispute this. My question is, and this stems from Marine1's post - will this device affixed to your vehicle constitute the crime of 'obstructing the course of justice'?

 

[IzZzy]

We were alluding to due process.

What you are querying has nothing to do with due process. Rather whether use (or possession) of the device is sufficient to establish intent. Correct?

 

[Sinbad]

I don't dispute this. My question is, and this stems from Marine1's post - will this device affixed to your vehicle constitute the crime of 'obstructing the course of justice'?

Yes.

This is the same charge I was threatened with for having a laser jammer.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I don't dispute this. My question is, and this stems from Marine1's post - will this device affixed to your vehicle constitute the crime of 'obstructing the course of justice'?

Yes.

 

[Wyzak]

I don't dispute this. My question is, and this stems from Marine1's post - will this device affixed to your vehicle constitute the crime of 'obstructing the course of justice'?

Does the device have any legal purpose when fitted to the numberplate in your vehicle? No it doesn't, therefore yes.

 

[herbertk]

Does the device have any legal purpose when fitted to the numberplate in your vehicle? No it doesn't, therefore yes.

Well you could use it for a show car, with a model name on the second plate or such. I doubt that would fly though haha...

 

[CAPS LOCK]

What you are querying has nothing to do with due process. Rather whether use (or possession) of the device is sufficient to establish intent. Correct?

Correct - intention to defeat/obstruct the ends of justice. If the device is merely attached to the vehicle, will this alone satisfy the liability requirement for the crime of obstructing the course of justice?

 

[ToxicBunny]

Correct - intention to defeat/obstruct the ends of justice. If the device is merely attached to the vehicle, will this alone satisfy the liability requirement for the crime of obstructing the course of justice?

Yes, it will...

The charge MAY get thrown out in court, possibly. But it will take much pain and effort on the part of the person having the device to get to that point.

 

[Bundu]

How so?

The device is illegal, it inherently shows intent to obstruct the course of justice.

so this website http://www.flipspeed.co.za/ is selling illegal stuff in SA

Is it within the law to sell illegal stuff?

 

[CAPS LOCK]

Does the device have any legal purpose when fitted to the numberplate in your vehicle? No it doesn't, therefore yes.

When the device is flipped when nearing a speed camera, then the 'defeat/obstruct justice' element is at play. But before this actual event, when the device is merely attached, it only has potential to flip, surely this cannot constitute the crime. it would be unconstitutional otherwise?

 

[ToxicBunny]

so this website http://www.flipspeed.co.za/ is selling illegal stuff in SA

Is it within the law to sell illegal stuff?

No its not, but that doesn't stop a fair number of companies doing so.

 

[ToxicBunny]

When the device is flipped when nearing a speed camera, then the 'defeat/obstruct justice' element is at play. But before this actual event, when the device is merely attached, it only has potential to flip, surely this cannot constitute the crime. it would be unconstitutional otherwise?

No, the fitting of the device to the vehicle is enough to show intent. Its not really a difficult concept.

 

[CAPS LOCK]

Yes, it will...

The charge MAY get thrown out in court, possibly. But it will take much pain and effort on the part of the person having the device to get to that point.

Before I get accused, again, by Gary, for trolling - May I ask why you think such?

 

[CAPS LOCK]

No, the fitting of the device to the vehicle is enough to show intent. Its not really a difficult concept.

Just to be clear, For defeating/obstructing the ends of justice?

 

[Wyzak]

When the device is flipped when nearing a speed camera, then the 'defeat/obstruct justice' element is at play. But before this actual event, when the device is merely attached, it only has potential to flip, surely this cannot constitute the crime. it would be unconstitutional otherwise?

Is there a legal purpose to have it attached to your numberplate? A number of other people have already mentioned the one law which states that you may not have anything within 15cm of the numberplate, so it's already in violation of that.

A cellphone jammer is illegal, you don't have to be caught in the act of using it. (Mmm strawberry jam, only Lonestar uses Strawberry jam).

 

[ToxicBunny]

Before I get accused, again, by Gary, for trolling - May I ask why you think such?

What other purpose does the device have OTHER than to obscure your license plate to avoid paying tolls/speeding fines?

 

[Messugga]

Right, so after having logged a complaint with SANRAL ages ago regarding inability to actually pay for outstanding amounts, they finally got back to me yesterday with some dodgy information. I asked them to clear up some things and they have now phoned me with the complete info.

Apparently though, they won't provide any form of receipt if you pay via EFT. The only way to get a receipt is by going to a store to pay. According to Thumelo Phefo, the gentleman who phoned me, they are in the process of acquiring my details from ENATIS and once that has been achieved, they will send me an invoice. If I don't pay by the 14th of this month, I'll be paying the penalty fees of roughly 3.7 times the current outsanding amount.

Best case scenario, they get the ENATIS info today and send the invoice. It's pretty unlikely that I will receive it (thanks to wonderful SAPO) by the 14th of this month, meaning that by default, I would be liable for the increased amount. For the record, the increased amount is around R223 for a single Southwards trip down the N1, hitting all the gantries on that highway. Pretty expensive for what, 60km or so?

 

[creeper]

Saw on twitter the etolls booths are packed with people complaining about inaccurate outstanding fees. Also complaining about slow systems and unable to pay. According to twitter, it was taking up to 75 minutes to pay the etolls

Another post was about someone trying to buy a day pass and they were trying to sell him an etag