The Huawei B593 LTE discussion thread

Update: B593 "Antenna detection" (aka the dreaded "DC short" issue)

So, a quick update/correction to this previous post and the ones that followed from it.

Yesterday I was doing some work with a different multimeter and decided to re-test the flat whip antennas included with my B593s-601. The previous test (done with a Fluke 27 DMM) had indicated a nominal 1.2kΩ DC resistance between the antenna terminals, possibly shunted by two anti-parallel diodes giving 0.6V drop in either direction.

After re-testing with both a Fluke 289 and another meter, I'm now pretty sure that what's inside is just a plain 1.2kΩ resistor. I was alerted to this by the fact that the Fluke 289 showed the same fixed 1.2kΩ resistance in both directions, but also indicated 1.2V (in either direction) on the diode test range. 1.2V and 1.2kΩ ? Hmm, sounds like 1mA, and it was.
Turns out that on its "Diode Test" range, the Fluke 289 uses a 1mA test current (1.0mA x 1.2kΩ = 1.2V) whereas the Fluke 27 uses 0.5mA (0.5mA x 1.2kΩ = 0.6V). The 0.6V was just coincidence that happened to look like one diode drop.

So, without actually opening up the antennas up or using a fancy network analyzer, I'm now pretty convinced that what's inside the B593s-601's flat white whip antennas (for providing DC continuity) is just a plain old 1.2kΩ resistor.

Providing DC continuity in an antenna (either through a short, or a deliberate resistance value), and then using a DC bias voltage on the antenna port to test whether the antenna is actually present, is a pretty straightforward technique. In automotive applications, it can also be used to detect abnormal antenna conditions (eg ground faults and short-circuits). From what I've read on the topic, 10kΩ is quite a common value to use inside such an antenna, but there's nothing stopping Huawei using a different value.
(For those interested in more detail on how the technique works, read this and this).

A quick check on the B593's SMA antenna ports also reveals that both have a constant 1.8VDC potential across them (interestingly, the centre pin is negative with respect to the outer shell) :

DSC02012 (Custom).jpg

This makes the case for antenna detection by DC resistance measurement on the B593 family that much stronger.

So, what does all this mean for the average B593 user who wants to use an external antenna and can't get the device to detect it ? Well, if you own a B593s-601, you probably don't care since you can force the modem to use the external antenna even if the "Auto" setting doesn't work.
For people who have the B593u-devices (with only auto antenna detection), and antennas that don't have DC continuity, this might mean that you can force the B593 to detect your antenna by providing DC continuity across the antenna terminals at 1.2kΩ (or perhaps less). Technically, this is much less of a challenge than trying to provide a DC short on an antenna that doesn't have one (without messing up it's RF performance, of course). This might well be what is being referred to in other Web articles on the topic, like this one :

"Tele2, on the other hand, never reacted to the problem and has not offered any new firmware. This operator uses LTE 900 and 2600. The only remedy are the adapters which contain a small resistor (Widerstand) and thereby makes the router shift automatically to external antennas"

(Thanks jeaninek for the original link to that thread).

I would still caution that forcing the B593 to use an external antenna obviously won't improve the signal conditions if the antenna itself is unsuitable or not set up right.

Also bear in mind that all of my tests have been done on a B593s-601. Whilst it's possible (likely, even), I can't say for sure whether the same things are true for the B593u-12 or B593u-91 and its accessories.
 
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Fantastic post, jcheek, we're lucky to have you on mybb! There's no arguing scientific tests beat all opinions.
 
Thanks all for the support, guys .. hopefully it'll be helpful to someone, somewhere, sometime .. !
You all contribute hugely, yourselves!

... I will measure my B593u-91 and post the result....
Great, please do!
If you can, measure both the resistance of your flat whip antennas and also any DC voltage on the antenna ports.
I'm keen to see if they're exactly the same values as on the 's-601.

How are you doing with your station-finding project, Mr Firmware ?
 
Excellent post Jcheek....I will measure my B593u-91 and post the result....
If suspected resistor is 1.2k, use any resistor with similiar value when meassuring voltage to make sure, no spurious AC signal is being rectified. However when using resistor in real application, use non-inductive type.
 
Thanks all for the support, guys .. hopefully it'll be helpful to someone, somewhere, sometime .. !
You all contribute hugely, yourselves!


Great, please do!
If you can, measure both the resistance of your flat whip antennas and also any DC voltage on the antenna ports.
I'm keen to see if they're exactly the same values as on the 's-601.

How are you doing with your station-finding project, Mr Firmware ?

Hi

Ok, on the B593u-91 it measures 3.33Vdc with the centre pin as negative. I don't have the flat whip antennas as they are not supplied in the box.

Found 3 towers so far, didn't have much time looking for more yet :)
 
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Fantastic post, jcheek, we're lucky to have you on mybb! There's no arguing scientific tests beat all opinions.
Surely you need to be a scientist to recognise scientific job, are you? ;)
As others called me a member of Huawei design team, I can tell you that DC-short for antenna detection is still an urban legend. Will post my findings soon, possibly for a start of another urban legend. :)
 
I read from jcheek that terminating antenna with 10kOhm resistor for antenna detection is used in motor industry. I checked relevant application notes, it is true and generally used in embedded development which use industry standard GPS or GSM modules. It is used in all cases where there is a requirement for real-time monitoring antenna connection whether it is for detecting malfunction (poor contact, shorts) or just intrusion (intentional antenna removal). GPS/GSM modules do not implement such monitoring in firmware, so some external glue circuit is required.

Coming back to LTE and B593, there is absolutely no need for such solutions, as B593 is not using industry standard modules and it is easier to detect external antenna by checking the signal in cooperation with the tower. :) Besides, the exposing internal power supply to the lightnig strike for the purpose of antenna detection is incredible stupid, if you ask me (a member of Huawei design team) <G>

Thank you guys for taking my suggestion of checking for the presence of voltage on the antenna connector seriously. As there is a DC voltage present indeed, it must be intentional. I must recall my previous statement that B593 problem with detecting DC-open antenna is just a poor design. Now I say, it is just a side effect of some new development in progress...

As I described above, for technical reason I reject arguments that DC voltage in B593 is used for antenna detection. The other application of DC on the output is for an active antenna. Active antenna has a built-in low noise amplifier (LNA), it needs a little power to operate, typically 1 to 5V and draws 1 to 20mA current. The fact that the earlier model put DC -3.3V on the antenna port and the latest model put -1.8V gave me an idea that they tested older and a newer version of LNA and still haven't decided to put it on the market.

Active antenna is a quite sophisticated piece of equipment when used in two-way radio communication and strictly speaking they can't use LNA in GSM/LTE - probably sort of LNB (with frequency shift). Perhaps some form of supporting detection mechanism of active antenna is also implemented.

I don't think we will see active antena on the market soon and perhaps not for B593, but watch this space when new models are coming.
 
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Hi,
I am looking for advice/help. I invested in a B593s-601 from Telkom as my ADSL in Capetown has degraded so much I cannot work. I have full ( 5 bar )signal, all blue. my Diagnostics seem ok from what i have managed to gleam from this thread:

Wireless Status
1 PLMN: 65502
2 Service status: Valid service
3 RSSI (dBm): -57.0
4 RSRP (dBm): -83.0
5 RSRQ (dB): -6.0
6 Roaming: No

but the speeds i am getting vary between 15Mbs and 5Mbs down and similar up?

I am in central Cape Town, is this normal or do i have a problem?

many thanks in advance.
 
Hi,
I am looking for advice/help. I invested in a B593s-601 from Telkom as my ADSL in Capetown has degraded so much I cannot work. I have full ( 5 bar )signal, all blue. my Diagnostics seem ok from what i have managed to gleam from this thread:

Wireless Status
1 PLMN: 65502
2 Service status: Valid service
3 RSSI (dBm): -57.0
4 RSRP (dBm): -83.0
5 RSRQ (dB): -6.0
6 Roaming: No

but the speeds i am getting vary between 15Mbs and 5Mbs down and similar up?

I am in central Cape Town, is this normal or do i have a problem?

many thanks in advance.

What device are you using to connect e.g. laptop (old or newish model), phone, etc?

I'm guessing that since you have 5 bars signal you aren't using any external antenna's?

I had a similar situation - until I upgraded my laptop - went from 13Mbs to 35 Mbs download.
 
What device are you using to connect e.g. laptop (old or newish model), phone, etc?

I'm guessing that since you have 5 bars signal you aren't using any external antenna's?

I had a similar situation - until I upgraded my laptop - went from 13Mbs to 35 Mbs download.



thanks for replying, it is really appreciated. I have been using my Macbook Air to test, with both LAN and WLAN connections. I have also used my Samsung Galaxy Note on WLAN. My SIP phone works well, though.

I did have both external antenna, ( ice-cream stick type). when i removed one it went from 4 bar to 5, and it shows as a mixture of internal and external. it is now constant on 5 bars.
would an external make a difference, even if I am getting a 'full' signal? i don't mind investing if i am going to get anything over 20MB.
I am really confused......
thanks
Craig
 
thanks for replying, it is really appreciated. I have been using my Macbook Air to test, with both LAN and WLAN connections. I have also used my Samsung Galaxy Note on WLAN. My SIP phone works well, though.

I did have both external antenna, ( ice-cream stick type). when i removed one it went from 4 bar to 5, and it shows as a mixture of internal and external. it is now constant on 5 bars.
would an external make a difference, even if I am getting a 'full' signal? i don't mind investing if i am going to get anything over 20MB.
I am really confused......
thanks
Craig

Might be an issue with the tower you are connecting to.

I get +- 50Mbps with 4 bars and my RSSI is -65, RSRP -92 and RSRQ -6.0. Two paddle flaps installed.
 
Might be an issue with the tower you are connecting to.

I get +- 50Mbps with 4 bars and my RSSI is -65, RSRP -92 and RSRQ -6.0. Two paddle flaps installed.


thanks. I understand there is only one in the city bowl? We are in Oranjezicht, do you think it is worth contacting Telkom, or should i just learn to deal with it.
I just get depressed when i look at all the other speedtest results.
 
I did have both external antenna, ( ice-cream stick type). when i removed one it went from 4 bar to 5, and it shows as a mixture of internal and external. it is now constant on 5 bars.
would an external make a difference, even if I am getting a 'full' signal?
Craig
Five bars doesn't mean full signal. CPTBoy posted some numbers. What are yours?
 
Five bars doesn't mean full signal. CPTBoy posted some numbers. What are yours?


Hi, mine are:
Wireless Status
1 PLMN: 65502
2 Service status: Valid service
3 RSSI (dBm): -57.0
4 RSRP (dBm): -83.0
5 RSRQ (dB): -6.0
6 Roaming: No

thanks
 
Sorry, I missed your first post. Signal is good.
Did you try speed test on internal antenna? Other people reported that internal antenna works better than paddle. Signal strenght is one things, but if internal antenna is able to negotiate 2x2 MIMO mode, speed could improve.
 
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