The Islamic State Thread

Unhappy438 said:
No no space this is what you said ...

Now guns finding there way into ISIS hands doesnt equal funding from the US. Allied weapons used to fall into the hands of Axis forces all the time, i suppose the Allies funded Nazi Germany too huh?

So am i incredibly gullible and naive or did you structure your sentence incorrectly?
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No. They don't wire them cash directly into their bank accounts when they know it's an ISIS account. Duh.

But supplying weapons and/or funding to groups people are clueless about in Syria who later side with the more extreme elements or sending weapons to people who are not able to use them properly because they run away is in effect doing that.

It's not as if the arms used to supply the Soviet fighting Afghans never ever got into the hands of the Taliban later.

Yes you are incredibly naive.

Western involvement in wanting to "do something" to fight Assad has definitely helped groups like ISIS. And it's helping them now too.
 
No, Space_Chief. Weapons 'falling into the hands of ISIS' is not the same as 'funding ISIS itself'. The meaning of the two sentences are completely different.

Don't be dishonest.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
No, Space_Chief. Weapons 'falling into the hands of ISIS' is not the same as 'funding ISIS itself'. The meaning of the two sentences are completely different.

Don't be dishonest.
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It's not dishonest. If I'm not careful and give money to people who claim to be good guys but later turn out to be bad guys, am I funding the bad guys or not?

No one said this was purposeful or intentional. You stop being dishonest.
 
Space_Chief said:
No. They don't wire them cash directly into their bank accounts when they know it's an ISIS account. Duh.

But supplying weapons and/or funding to groups people are clueless about in Syria who later side with the more extreme elements or sending weapons to people who are not able to use them properly because they run away is in effect doing that.

It's not as if the arms used to supply the Soviet fighting Afghans never ever got into the hands of the Taliban later.

Yes you are incredibly naive.

Western involvement in wanting to "do something" to fight Assad has definitely helped groups like ISIS. And it's helping them now too.
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Nice shifting of the goal posts, my point was only ever about direct funding. If their funding ends up in ISIS hands indirectly that's an entirely different matter. I don't claim to know the exact process taken to fund rebel groups fighting ISIS because its quite secretive, i doubt you know the specifics either. At no point did i ever deny that ISIS have benefited from the current situation in Syria and Iraq, its obvious that they have but that's not the same as saying USA has funded ISIS. You are obviously unaware of the context of my initial post, which is a pity because then you wouldn't have to label me as naive.
 
Space_Chief said:
No. They don't wire them cash directly into their bank accounts when they know it's an ISIS account. Duh.

But supplying weapons and/or funding to groups people are clueless about in Syria who later side with the more extreme elements or sending weapons to people who are not able to use them properly because they run away is in effect doing that.

It's not as if the arms used to supply the Soviet fighting Afghans never ever got into the hands of the Taliban later.

Yes you are incredibly naive.

Western involvement in wanting to "do something" to fight Assad has definitely helped groups like ISIS. And it's helping them now too.
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Those AK's in Afghanistan are from US stock. The Stingers they managed to claw back.

Will the US put troops back into Iraq. NO. That would be political suicide. They will continue to support their puppet government until it is pointless.
 
Garyvdh said:
They should have targeted that same demographic and taken those young boys and turned them into iPod carrying, pimpled geeks, hipsters and jocks, who care more about their movies and clothes than what their Imam is teaching at the Mosque on Friday. In other words, turn them into global consumers.
$3.5 Trillion dollars would have bought every family in the Middle East enough materialism to trigger this change.
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You know, this would have worked, and has worked in places before.
But I dunno...
 
Unhappy438 said:
Nice shifting of the goal posts, my point was only ever about direct funding. If their funding ends up in ISIS hands indirectly that's an entirely different matter. I don't claim to know the exact process taken to fund rebel groups fighting ISIS because its quite secretive, i doubt you know the specifics either. At no point did i ever deny that ISIS have benefited from the current situation in Syria and Iraq, its obvious that they have but that's not the same as saying USA has funded ISIS. You are obviously unaware of the context of my initial post, which is a pity because then you wouldn't have to label me as naive.
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I'm not shifting goal posts because I never said they were directly sending cash to ISIS or Al Qaeda. Do you get that?

You don't claim to know process so don't speak as if you do. If you know that the support the West provides or has provided only goes to the good guys, good for you and you can provide such evidence. If the support - and much of it has been stopped in Syria because of this problem - is often being used by the bad guys for various reasons, the West is then in effect funding the bad guys.

No it's not intentional, of course. Maybe not direct. But it could have been easily avoided.
 
Space_Chief said:
It's not dishonest. If I'm not careful and give money to people who claim to be good guys but later turn out to be bad guys, am I funding the bad guys or not?

No one said this was purposeful or intentional. You stop being dishonest.
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Cool. So if you give your daughter a car, and the car gets stolen and later used in a hijacking, I can say "Space_Chief funded hijackers".
 
Space_Chief said:
No one said this was purposeful or intentional. You stop being dishonest.
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Yes actually the first post insinuated that:

marine1 said:
Would not surprise me is the Obam bam administration is funding the other side too. Remember its all about the oil and Obama has been shown to be a complete liar.
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I then replied to that post within that context, so as i said, you failed to understand the context.
 
Space_Chief said:
I'm not shifting goal posts because I never said they were directly sending cash to ISIS or Al Qaeda. Do you get that?
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Thats exactly what the discussion was about though, so i was right, you didn't get the context.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Cool. So if you give your daughter a car, and the car gets stolen and later used in a hijacking, I can say "Space_Chief funded hijackers".
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No. If I give money and guns to guys who claim to be fighting my enemy* and I don't have very good knowledge on the ground of what's going on and a control of what happens to these weapons, I am in effect supporting the enemy ( a different enemy ).

I assume your daughter can be trusted.

Your analogy is stupid.

* Assad was not even the West's enemy. This is even worse. Assad never acted against the West.
 
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Unhappy438 said:
Yes actually the first post insinuated that:
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That was you reading additional things into it yourself. No-one suggested that.



I then replied to that post within that context, so as i said, you failed to understand the context.
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Your "context" is based on your faulty understanding and uncharitable interpretation.

Grow up and stop making this thread into one long unnecessary argument.
 
This is not going to end well. The US is not going to be able to stay out without losing face. If they push into Southern Turkey - then NATO will be obliged to get involved. And Kuwait and Saudi Arabia must be getting very worried.
This is what Obama will be remembered for.
 
Compton_effect said:
This is not going to end well. The US is not going to be able to stay out without losing face. If they push into Southern Turkey - then NATO will be obliged to get involved. And Kuwait and Saudi Arabia must be getting very worried.
This is what Obama will be remembered for.
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Saudi Arabia is basically Sunni, so i dont think their is too much worry as long as the oil price rises amid this crisis.
 
Whose mess is this really to clean up? In one sense it is the Middle East's problem. They created this problem. Let them clean it up.
But in another sense it will always be a world problem, cos you have oil and corporate interests tied up... not to mention all that "brotherhood of man" crap.

We all know that this is going to trigger the Third World War.... and one of that war's greatest casualties will be a certain religion which will be told in no uncertain terms "shape up or GTFO".
 
I'm more worried about all those EU, Canadian and US citizens slipping back into their countries to spread the things they used while fighting for ISIS.
As well as any expat gentlemen coming to join family in South Africa and deciding things should be done the same here.
 
Garyvdh said:
Whose mess is this really to clean up? In one sense it is the Middle East's problem. They created this problem. Let them clean it up.
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Actually it was the Allies at the end of WW1 and the League of Nations that divided up the Middle East willy-nilly that initially created this problem.

The borders were drawn without regard for the wishes of the people living there, or along ethnic, geographic, or religious boundaries – they were truly arbitrary. It is important to note that even today, political borders in the Middle East do not indicate different groups of people. The differences between Iraqis, Syrians, Jordanians, etc. were entirely created by the European colonizers as a method of dividing the Arabs against each other.
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http://lostislamichistory.com/how-the-british-divided-up-the-arab-world/
 
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