The Middle East Conflict Thread

I wonder what effect this will have on the Gaza gas reserves :p lmao if suddenly Israel claim its theirs to sell as per usual
 
tranquill said:
I was surprised to learn that Israel censors military info and even banned international reporters from conflict areas. Here is an underground site called Israeli Uncensored News http://samsonblinded.org/news which runs some very odd reports.
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More like Uncensored Propaganda. ;) Long on inflammatory statements, short on hard facts. Check out the section on South Africa... very odd indeed. The "Samsonblinded" tag is rather revealing in the context of that hero's smiting among the ancient Philistines. Read THAT story (Judges 14 and 15) if you are in the mood for a tale of bloodthirsty mayhem and divine entitlement.
 
timgaul said:
Why so defensive?
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Deconstructing your BS is "defensive"? Last I heard, that was actually an offensive move in debating. But actually, this explains a few things. It's pretty obvious now why you think Israel launching a massive bombardment of civilian areas is a "defensive" maneuvre. :D

A little embarrassed that those guys you were defending turned out to be the bad guys all along?
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Um... Palestinians didn't break the ceasefire. Israeli gunboats attacked Gazan fishermen. But hey, let's ignore that warcrime and focus straight on the attack on Israeli soldiers. I can just imagine your ridiculous indignation. I mean, how dare those sand-coons actually retaliate when Israel has the obvious right to attack anyone with impunity? :o

Palestinian militants broke the ceasefire and the facts prove it.
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Wrong.

Before you go defending their actions just remember than in doing so you justify any unprovoked attacks from Israel.
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I'm not defending their actions, I'm deconstructing your BS criticisms of their actions. There's a difference. And you're still wrong, because :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade

Note how the ICC plans to officially include blockades in their list of acts of war.

Also note :
Until 1827, blockades were always a part of a war.

This changed when France, Russia, and Britain came to the aid of the Greek rebels against Turkey. They blockaded the Turkish-occupied coast, which led to the battle of Navarino. But no war was declared, so it is considered the first "pacific" blockade.[3] The first truly pacific blockade (no shooting at all) was the British blockade of the Republic of New Granada in 1837, established to compel New Granada to release an imprisoned British consul.[4]

Main article: Act of War

A blockade is defined by Encyclopedia Britannica as an "an act of war by which a belligerent prevents access to or departure from a defined part of the enemy’s coasts."[5]
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So until the blockade is lifted, even under international law, Gazans are fully justified in bearing arms in order to end the blockade. And until the blockade is lifted, there can be no claim of a "cease-fire" because the belligerance of the IDF is unending.

Please would you refrain from your childish name calling, it is counter productive and detracts from any legitimate argument you may have.
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I didn't call you any names. I mocked your argument, and it's an argument that deserves to be mocked. You're exhibiting gross double-standards, justifying behaviour by one group, and then denouncing that same behaviour when another group behaves like the first group. Why on earth should I respect that?

Garyvdh said:
I dunno... you tell me. They are your buddies. Do you see anybody you recognize? Any family members? :confused: Sorry... ex Family members? :rolleyes:
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Umm, no. I'm afraid you have more in common with Hamas (and the IDF by extension) than I do.

BBSA said:
Lifting the blockade was never part of the cease-fire.
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Um, yes it was.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...ckade-only-after-soldier-freed_100148361.html

Under that truce, Israel also committed to gradually reopen its crossings with Gaza, which it initially did, allowing in slowly increasing amounts of non-basic goods such as cement and other raw materials.
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Of course, despite the fact that even Israel admits that Hamas never even fired a single rocket into Israel, that wasn't good enough for Israel. A cynic might remark that Israel never intended to lift the blockade, but I'm sure there's no need to state the obvious.

I agree Hamas are idiots.
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I guess you and Hamas have much in common, then. :D

Aqua_lung said:
I don't like fairy tales very much, especially the one for adults.
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Yeah, but you must remember that it's this fairy tale which the Zionists invoke to justify their subjugation of the Palestinians.
 
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Aqua_lung said:
I don't like fairy tales very much, especially the one for adults.
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LOL, I've noticed! Many others do swear by them though, including modern fairy tales about David and Goliath, but they've got the roles hopelessly confused ;)
 
About time..

Turkish PM storms off stage
30/01/2009 07:26 - (SA)

Davos, Switzerland - Turkey's prime minister stalked off the stage at the World Economic Forum red-faced on Thursday after reproaching Israel's president over the Gaza offensive by saying "You kill people."

The packed audience, which included President Barack Obama's close adviser Valerie Jarrett, appeared stunned as Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Israeli President Shimon Peres raised their voices and traded accusations.

Peres was passionate in his defence of Israel's three-week offensive against Hamas militants, launched in reaction to eight years of rocket fire aimed at Israeli territory. As he spoke, Peres often turned toward Erdogan, who in his remarks had criticised the Israeli blockade of Gaza, saying it was an "open air prison, isolated from the rest of the world" and referred to the Palestinian death toll of about 1 300, more than half of those civilians. Thirteen Israelis also died.

"Why did they fire rockets? There was no siege against Gaza," Peres said, his voice rising in emotion. "Why did they fight us, what did they want? There was never a day of starvation in Gaza."

The heated debate with Israel and Turkey at the centre was significant because of the key role Turkey has played as a moderator between Israel and Syria.

The confrontation received attention in Turkey and thousands of Erdogan supporters gave him a hero's welcome as he arrived home in Istanbul hours later.

During the debate, Erdogan appeared to express a sense of disappointment when he recounted how he had met with the Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert days before the offensive, and believed they were close to reaching terms for a face-to-face meeting with Syrian leaders.

'You killed people. And I think that it is very wrong'

Obama's new Mideast envoy, George Mitchell, will be in Turkey for talks on Sunday.

Erdogan was angry when a panel moderator cut off his remarks in response to an impassioned monologue by Peres defending Israel's offensive against the Hamas rulers of Gaza.

"I find it very sad that people applaud what you said," Erdogan said. "You killed people. And I think that it is very wrong."

The angry exchange followed an hour-long debate at the forum attended by world leaders in Davos. Erdogan tried to rebut Peres as the discussion was ending, asking the moderator, Washington Post columnist David Ignatius, to let him speak once more.

"Only a minute," Ignatius replied.

"Mr Peres, you are older than me. Your voice is too loud," Erdogan told Peres, saying his emotion belied a guilty conscience.

"You kill people," Erdogan told the 85-year-old Israeli leader. "I remember the children who died on beaches. I remember two former prime ministers who said they felt very happy when they were able to enter Palestine on tanks."

'Don't interrupt me'

When Erdogan was asked to stop, he angrily stalked off, leaving fellow panelists UN Secretary-General Ban-Ki moon and Arab League Secretary Amr Moussa.

"When it comes to killing, you know it too well," the Turkish leader said.

When the moderator tried to cut short Erdogan's remarks, saying it was past time to adjourn for dinner, he answered in frustration, "Don't interrupt me. You are not allowing me to speak."

He then said: "I will not come to Davos again."

Ultimately, Erdogan stressed he left not because of a dispute with Peres but because he was not given time to respond to the Israeli leader's remarks. Erdogan also complained that Peres had 25 minutes while he was only given 12 minutes.

"I did not target at all in any way the Israeli people, President Peres, or the Jewish people," Erdogan told a news conference afterward.

"I am a prime minister, a leader who has specifically expressly stated that anti-Semitism is a crime against humanity," he said.

'They don't listen'

Peres and Erdogan raised their voices - highly unusual at the elite gathering of corporate and world leaders, which is usually marked by polite dialogue.

Moussa, a former Egyptian foreign minister, said Erdogan's action was understandable.

"Mr Erdogan said what he wanted to say and then he left. That's all. He was right." Of Israel, he said, "They don't listen."

Erdogan brushed past reporters outside the hall. His wife appeared upset. "All Peres said was a lie. It was unacceptable," she said, eyes glistening.

"I have know Shimon Peres for many years and I also know Erdogan. I have never seen Shimon Peres so passionate as he was today. I think he felt Israel was being attacked by so many in the international community. He felt isolated," said former Norwegian Prime Minister Kjell Magne Bondevik.

"I was very sad that Erdogan left. This was an expression of how difficult this situation is."

The Turkish leader was warmly greeted by a jubilant crowd of more than 5 000 supporters, many waving Turkish and Palestinian flags, who flooded Istanbul's airport when his plane touched down about 02:00 on Friday.

Some outside of the airport gate held banners that applauded his Palestinian stance in Davos. "The conqueror of Davos," one banner read. CNN television said extra buses were put on duty so more people could turn out to welcome him.

In brief comments at the airport, Erdogan said he had been insulted. "My responsibility is to protect the honour of the Turkish nation." He added that Peres called him before he left Davos and expressed his regrets.

- AP
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LOL, about time this happen if you ask me. There is only so much BS one can take and this past war the Israeli officials have been spewing out unbelievable amounts.
 
Xarog said:
Um, yes it was.
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You do release Israel declared a unilateral ceasefires, right?

From wiki:

On 17 January, Israeli officials announced a unilateral ceasefire, without an agreement with Hamas. In a press conference, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert declared the ceasefire effective that night at 2400 GMT The Israeli ceasefire was first suggested by Livni and consists of two phases worked out by Ehud Barak: "First a ceasefire is declared. If Hamas stops firing rockets then Israel pulls its forces out of the Gaza Strip. If rocket fire resumes then the IDF goes back in, this time with the international backing gained by having tried a truce
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So how can the lifting of the blockade be part of the ceasefires?

FAIL
 
"I am a prime minister, a leader who has specifically expressly stated that anti-Semitism is a crime against humanity," he said.
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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: You are a crime against humanity!
So many people dont like you you even have name for it.
 
BBSA said:
You do release Israel declared a unilateral ceasefires, right?
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Yes, that means they decided to cease-firing. A unilateral cease-fire means there is no agreement whatsoever.

In order for there to be terms, there has to be an agreement. Without terms there is no agreement. Aqua_Lung clearly mentioned "terms". Can I make it any clearer for you?

So how can the lifting of the blockade be part of the ceasefires?

FAIL
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OK. Let's all go to never-neverland where blockades are not acts of war. How the f##k can there be a cease-fire, unilateral or otherwise, when a belligerent act/state of affairs continues to exist? :rolleyes:
 
BBSA said:
So Aqua_Lung was wrong?
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Yeah, he was. Israel has never ceased-firing. Maybe the hostilities calmed down somewhat, but Israel is still acting in a belligerent manner.
 
krycor said:
LOL, about time this happen if you ask me. There is only so much BS one can take and this past war the Israeli officials have been spewing out unbelievable amounts.
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and Turkey bombing Iraqis in northern Iraq was not killing people :o
 
I didn't call you any names. I mocked your argument, and it's an argument that deserves to be mocked. You're exhibiting gross double-standards, justifying behaviour by one group, and then denouncing that same behaviour when another group behaves like the first group. Why on earth should I respect that?
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All I read when you post is "you're a racist" "you're having a foot in mouth moment". As such you're incapable of mature debate. Since you also claim to not respect anyone's opinion but your own I see no reason to continue this discussion.

But since we're name calling: your selfish immature behaviour reminds me of my 4 year old niece. She also doesn't like to share.

Congratulations on your derail.
 
Generix said:
LOL, I've noticed! Many others do swear by them though, including modern fairy tales about David and Goliath, but they've got the roles hopelessly confused ;)
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Actually David then went on to conquer all Arab neighbours aggressive to his people and once and for all establish the nation of Israel as one to be reckoned with. So very appropriate indeed. It would appear that by the amount of hostile Arab nations surrounding Israel that it's once again a case of the giant Goliath versus the diminutive Israeli David.
 
timgaul said:
All I read when you post is "you're a racist" "you're having a foot in mouth moment". As such you're incapable of mature debate.
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Sorry to rain on your parade, but you said :

timgaul said:
And don't anyone dare try to tell me it wasn't the Palestinians breaking the ceasefire this time around!
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That was arrogant, it was presumptuous and it was insulting. Not only were you wrong, but you actually drew a line in the sand, and, by a direct implication of your words, you suggested that no one had the liberty to disagree with you.

And as a result, your response got the mockery it so richly deserved.

Since you also claim to not respect anyone's opinion but your own I see no reason to continue this discussion.
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Oh, I'm quite willing to respect other's opinions, just not opinions that are generally disrespectful of others.

But since we're name calling: your selfish immature behaviour reminds me of my 4 year old niece. She also doesn't like to share.
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Et tu, Brute.

Congratulations on your derail.
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In case you hadn't noticed, I refuted your arguments with facts; there was no derail.
 
Alan said:
and Turkey bombing Iraqis in northern Iraq was not killing people :o
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To quote many Israeli's PR people, thats the past and has nothing to do with the current situation ;) (or does it in the end? cause prior to sayin it they often talking of past events :rolleyes:)

timgaul said:
Actually David then went on to conquer all Arab neighbours aggressive to his people and once and for all establish the nation of Israel as one to be reckoned with. So very appropriate indeed. It would appear that by the amount of hostile Arab nations surrounding Israel that it's once again a case of the giant Goliath versus the diminutive Israeli David.
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Thats why i find it very silly.. Israel cannot be portrayed as david as IDF what compared to hamas rockets? Go back to media sentiment and news reports and you find that at a certain point the Israeli's realised that they were Goliath(kinda funny) and then their PR tool worked hard to try and salvage it.
 
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