The Middle East Conflict Thread

[JHatman]

I'm in ur forumz, necromancing ur topix.

Ok seriously like Hamas are gonna get nuked or summing right? Israel has nukes. Why not just use Hamas tactics and fire a single nuclear warhead over the border onto their side I mean that'll shut them up for a few hundreds years right? We could call it "peace in the middle east"

 

[Xarog]

I'm in ur forumz, necromancing ur topix.

Ok seriously like Hamas are gonna get nuked or summing right? Israel has nukes. Why not just use Hamas tactics and fire a single nuclear warhead over the border onto their side I mean that'll shut them up for a few hundreds years right? We could call it "peace in the middle east"

Because :

On January 27th media headlines trumpeted that Palestinians had broken the latest cease-fire: a bomb had killed one Israeli soldier and injured two or three.

Virtually every media outlet reported this action as a major breach in the ceasefire that had begun on January 18th: CNN, AP, NPR, the New York Times, The Washington Post, Fox News, ABC, CBS, the Christian Science Monitor, the LA Times, the McClatchy Newspapers, etc, all pinned the resumption of violence on Palestinians.

There’s just one problem. Israeli forces had already violated the ceasefire at least seven times:

* Israeli forces killed a Palestinian farmer in Khuza'a east of Khan Yunis on Jan 18
* Israeli forces killed a Palestinian farmer east of Jabalia on Jan. 19
* Israeli naval gunboats shelled the Gaza coastline, causing damage to civilian structures
* Israeli troops shot and injured a child east of Gaza City on Jan 22
* Israeli gunboat fire injured 4-7 Palestinian fishermen on Jan 22
* Israeli shelling set a Palestinian house on fire on Jan 22
* Israeli tanks fired on the border town of Al Faraheen, causing damage to homes and farms on Jan 24

Israel is the one provoking the situation. It's like saying that we could solve the school bully problem if the bullies were just allowed to kill all the nerds.

 

[krycor]

Haha the oh so not anymore secret database on settlements

Settlement data 'implicates Israel'

A leaked report on Jewish settlements in the West Bank shows that the Israeli government was complicit in illegal construction on land owned by Palestinians, an Israeli human rights group says.

Yesh Din said on Friday that the classsified information, compiled by the Israeli defence ministry, would allow it to help Palestinians sue the Israeli government for damages.

Michael Sfard, Yesh Din's legal counsel, said the information was a "severe indictment" of Israel's military and government.

Israeli authorities are "systematically violating international law and the property rights of Palestinian residents," he said in a statement.

The information leaked to the group shows that in three out of every four settlements in the West Bank at least some of the construction was completed without proper permits, Israel's Haaretz newspaper reported.

The daily said the database showed that, in more than 30 settlements, extensive construction of buildings and infrastructure like roads, schools, synagogues, and even police stations was carried out on private lands belonging to Palestinians.

In one settlement, Elon Moreh, 18 houses were built on private land, the reports says. In another, Efrat, a park and a synagogue were built on privateland, and in a third, Ariel, a college was built without legal approval.

Yesh Din said it would begin running advertisments in Palestinian newspapers to encourage people to take legal action, and will also offer legal counsel, the statement from the group said.

The database focuses on the 120 West bank settlements that have been authorised by the Israeli government since it occupied the territory in 1967. About 100 other unauthorised outposts have also been established by settlers.

The settlements are illegal under international law and the so-called "road map" setting the course for Israeli-Palestinian negotiations calls for a halt to their expansion.

There was no immediate comment from the Israeli government on the conclusions of the report.

Source: Aljazeera

'Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlement'

Just four years ago, the defense establishment decided to carry out a seemingly elementary task: establish a comprehensive database on the settlements. Brigadier General (res.) Baruch Spiegel, aide to then defense minister Shaul Mofaz, was put in charge of the project. For over two years, Spiegel and his staff, who all signed a special confidentiality agreement, went about systematically collecting data, primarily from the Civil Administration.

One of the main reasons for this effort was the need to have credible and accessible information at the ready to contend with legal actions brought by Palestinian residents, human rights organizations and leftist movements challenging the legality of construction in the settlements and the use of private lands to establish or expand them. The painstakingly amassed data was labeled political dynamite.

The defense establishment, led by Defense Minister Ehud Barak, steadfastly refused to publicize the figures, arguing, for one thing, that publication could endanger state security or harm Israel's foreign relations. Someone who is liable to be particularly interested in the data collected by Spiegel is George Mitchell, President Barack Obama's special envoy to the Middle East, who came to Israel this week for his first visit since his appointment. It was Mitchell who authored the 2001 report that led to the formulation of the road map, which established a parallel between halting terror and halting construction in the settlements.

The official database, the most comprehensive one of its kind ever compiled in Israel about the territories, was recently obtained by Haaretz. Here, for the first time, information the state has been hiding for years is revealed. An analysis of the data reveals that, in the vast majority of the settlements - about 75 percent - construction, sometimes on a large scale, has been carried out without the appropriate permits or contrary to the permits that were issued. The database also shows that, in more than 30 settlements, extensive construction of buildings and infrastructure (roads, schools, synagogues, yeshivas and even police
stations) has been carried out on private lands belonging to Palestinian West Bank residents.

...(too long Source: Haaretz article)

Hrm.. seems like they shooting themselves in the foot now lmao, it must be said though this seems to be election related. This is really gonna make the US, particularly the new Obama admin, who claims to be even handed, on a bit of an edge.

 

[Xarog]

Nice to see mainstream Israeli media coverage actually reporting on why the Palestinians might just be a little ticked off with Israel.

Edit :

Dror Etkes, formerly the coordinator of Peace Now's settlement monitoring project and currently director of the Land Advocacy Project for the Yesh Din organization, says, "The government's ongoing refusal to reveal this material on the pretext of security reasons is yet another striking example of the way in which the state exploits its authority to reduce the information at the citizens' disposal, when they wish to formulate intelligent positions based on facts rather than lies and half-truths."

How true. From a purely objective viewpoint, the degree to which Israel manages to control information is extremely impressive.

 

[marine1]

Oh great 2 weeks away and this thread is still going strong?

 

[Xarog]

Same shyte, different day.

 

[tcltk]

hmmm.. immagine the response if it were the otherway around.. do you think the reporter would _only_ have their knees shot?
What is really remarkable is would there be the same "outcry" replacing the word Israel with anything other, Russia, America, China, India, Iraq, Kosovo, Georgia.. true colours shine clear i guess

Nice to see mainstream Israeli media coverage actually reporting on why the Palestinians might just be a little ticked off with Israel.

Edit :


How true. From a purely objective viewpoint, the degree to which Israel manages to control information is extremely impressive.

 

[Xarog]

What is really remarkable is would there be the same "outcry" replacing the word Israel with anything other, Russia, America, China, India, Iraq, Kosovo, Georgia.. true colours shine clear i guess

Do you see anyone claiming that any of those places have a free press and that the governments don't hide damaging information?

 

[tcltk]

oh, i see we have to SPELL it out for you... the "free" press in Gaza

Do you see anyone claiming that any of those places have a free press and that the governments don't hide damaging information?

 

[Xarog]

oh, i see we have to SPELL it out for you... the "free" press in Gaza

Who said there was any press in Gaza? International correspondants are prevented by Israel from even setting foot inside the strip.

 

[tcltk]

Oh shame, didnt they take a look and see that there is a border to Gaza from Egypt?

Who said there was any press in Gaza? International correspondants are prevented by Israel from even setting foot inside the strip.

 

[Xarog]

Oh shame, didnt they take a look and see that there is a border to Gaza from Egypt?

That would be the border that Israel demanded that Egypt seal, despite misgivings by Hosni Mubarak? The same border which Israel bombed in the last offensive? Is that the border you're talking about?

 

[tcltk]

Or not brave enough to make it through one of the tunnels?
Where theres a will theres a way, no?
I've seen news reports from Zim where foreign press is banned.. food for thought..

 

[Xarog]

Or not brave enough to make it through one of the tunnels?
Where theres a will theres a way, no?
I've seen news reports from Zim where foreign press is banned.. food for thought..

Yes, reports do sometimes get out, despite the measures employed by Israel to prevent that from happening. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[tcltk]

Congratulations on totally missing the point.. the point being, if anyone IN Gaza criticized Hamas - would they only be shot in their knees?

Yes, reports do sometimes get out, despite the measures employed by Israel to prevent that from happening. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Xarog]

Congratulations on totally missing the point.. the point being, if anyone IN Gaza criticized Hamas - would they only be shot in their knees?

So... you're trying to say that Israel should imitate Hamas?

 

[tcltk]

not at all.. i'm highlighting a distinct contrast between the two

So... you're trying to say that Israel should imitate Hamas?

 

[Xarog]

not at all.. i'm highlighting a distinct contrast between the two

Rubbish. You're trying to say that we shouldn't blame Israel for its shortcomings because there's others out there that are worse. I.e. "It's okay to rob people because at least I'm not murdering them."

Your argument is completely disingenuous.

 

[tcltk]

bwhahahah, well im glad that you know better than i what im thinking... sorry if the contrast it too much for you to handle.

 

[krycor]

Seems like it will resume soon this time Israel is warning of using 'disproportionate' force, guess it makes it ok this in response to rockets fired today by one of the factions in Gaza. I'm waiting for them to blame Hamas for not policing because that will be darn funny of them.