The Middle East Conflict Thread

Mephisto_Helix

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only a few homemade rockets? read up 1st ;) and what about the suicide bombings of buses and synagogues?
 

inferno

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Israel are a bunch of terrorists. They have killed more innocent people than Hamas could ever kill.

Hama's are pretty much a government, who have been branded terrorists by the US propaganda machine. I also think its pretty hard to run a stable county when your constantly having to smuggle in food and medical supplies just to survive. They have been backed into a corner and forced to fight back in order to protect their civilians, and when they fight back people act surprised and then launch over 700 air strikes at them in under a week.

Its like a small poor kid at high school who takes the little food he has to school, only to have it stolen by a 12th grade bully. When the kid go's to the principle to complain about the bully, the principle laughs at him and tells him to get lost. The kid is then forced to take actions into his own hands and gets a knife from his parents kitchen. The kid is provoked by the bully the next day and during a fight, stabs the older boy. The media brand the kid as a satanist who had been trained by the devil to kill hundreds of people. The kid is then executed by the government without a trial or lawyer.

Fair? no.
Ethical? no.
Bias? yes.
 

Fern9do

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A fine axample on how pathetic the "rockets" excuse is....


Propaganda war: trusting what we see?


Israel has tried to take the initiative in the propaganda war over Gaza but, in one important instance, its version has been seriously challenged.

The incident raises the question of how to interpret video taken from the air.

Israel released video of an air attack on 28 December, which appeared to show rockets being loaded onto a lorry .The truck and those close to it were then destroyed by a missile.


This was clear evidence, the Israelis said, of how accurate their strikes were and how well justified. A special unit it has set up to coordinate its informational plan put the video onto YouTube as part of its effort to use modern means of communications to get Israel's case across.

The YouTube video has a large caption on it saying "Grad missiles being loaded onto the Hamas vehicle." As of Saturday morning UK time, more than 260,000 people had watched it.

Different version

It turned out, however, that a 55-year-old Gaza resident named Ahmed Sanur, or Samur, claimed that the truck was his and that he and members of his family and his workers were moving oxygen cylinders from his workshop.


This workshop had been damaged when a building next door was bombed by the Israelis and he was afraid of looters, he said.

The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem put Mr Sanur's account on its website, together with a photograph of burned out oxygen cylinders.

Mr Sanur said that eight people, one of them his son, had been killed. He subsequently told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz: "These were not Hamas, they were our children... They were not Grad missiles.".

The Israeli response was that the "materiel" was being taken from a site that had stored weapons. The video remains on You Tube.

But the incident shows how an apparently definitive piece of video can turn into something much more doubtful.


It is reminiscent of an event in the Nato war against Serbia over Kosovo in 1999. In that case, a video taken from the air seemed to show a military convoy which was then attacked.

On the ground however it was discovered that the "trucks" were in fact tractors towing cartloads of civilian refugees, many of whom were killed


Article continues
Israel effort

The Israeli propaganda effort is being directed to achieve two main aims.

The first is to justify the air attacks. The second is to show that there is no humanitarian calamity in Gaza.

Both these aims are intended to place Israel in a strong position internationally and to enable its diplomacy to act as an umbrella to fend off calls for a ceasefire while the military operation unfolds.

Israel has pursued the first aim by being very active in getting its story across that Hamas is to blame. The sight of Hamas rockets streaking into Israel has been helpful in this respect.

It has also allowed trucks in with food aid and has stressed that it will not let people starve, even if they go short.

Israel appears to think its efforts are working.

One of its spokespeople, who has regularly appeared on the international media, Major Avital Leibovich, said: "Quite a few outlets are very favourable to Israel."

Ban on foreign media

Israel has bolstered its approach by banning foreign correspondents from Gaza, despite a ruling from the Israeli Supreme Court.

The Arab television news channel Al Jazeera is operating there and its reports have been graphic and have affected opinion across the Arab world. The BBC also has its local bureau hard at work.

But the absence of reporters from major organisations has meant, for example, that Mr Samur's story has not been as widely told as it probably would have been, or his account subject to an on-the-spot examination.

Meanwhile Israel has received good coverage of the threats and damage to its own towns and communities.

Whether Israel retains any propaganda initiative is not all certain. Pictures of dead and wounded children have undermined its claim to pinpoint accuracy and the longer this goes on, the greater the potential for world public opinion to swing against it, with diplomatic pressure building for a cessation.

Its presentational problems would be hugely increased if it engaged in a ground operation, which would bring with it more pictures of death and destruction.

Update:

several readers have e-mailed to ask whether I believe Hamas. One said I had "bought into" Hamas propaganda. Another that I should have dealt with Hamas' claims: "What's missing speaks volumes about your one-sidedness."

I do not believe anyone's "propaganda." We seek to verify all claims, from whatever source. One of the main claims in Gaza at the moment is the serious situation for the population. Having reported from Gaza many times over the years, I know how crowded parts of it are and how dependent the people are on food aid from the UN. This means they have no other source of supply but equally, if the system is working, they should be getting enough to get by on. The problem is that foreign correspondents cannot get in to establish the exact situation for themselves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7809371.stm

To me it's the Israeli's who are looking like the Terrorist.
 

inferno

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Russia should supply the Hama's government with some warships seeing as the US did the same for Israel. Then things will really get interesting.
 

Fern9do

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I just pray that things will change once that idiot Bush is officially out of the White House. This killing of innocent people has to stop:(
 

DJ...

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I just pray that things will change once that idiot Bush is officially out of the White House. This killing of innocent people has to stop:(

Oh ffs - do you honestly believe Bush is the reason for the conflict? Really now - seems some people will use any excuse to blame their troubles on the US. And now we have inferno calling for Russia to get involved? Fsck, calling it logic would be an insult to all those who use it, but whatever it is, it's mind boggling...!!!
 

Frankie

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I just pray that things will change once that idiot Bush is officially out of the White House. This killing of innocent people has to stop:(

Obama:
"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that,"
:D

Watch that swinging door.;)
 

Fern9do

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Did I say that Bush is the reason for the conflict DJK?

Bush is definitely not helping the situation by encouraging Isreal to kill more and more innocent woman and children.
 

Frankie

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White House blames Hamas for new Mideast violence

As if all will change with Obama in office :rolleyes:

White House blames Hamas for new Mideast violence


“As President-elect Obama has made clear time and again, no country should be forced to tolerate attacks on its people,” said Sen Frank R Lautenberg. “Hamas is abusing the people of Gaza by using their homes as a base for terror operations. The world should no longer tolerate a terrorist government in the Gaza Strip.”
 

DJ...

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Did I say that Bush is the reason for the conflict DJK?

Yip, you did.

I just pray that things will change once that idiot Bush is officially out of the White House. This killing of innocent people has to stop:(

It's called passing the buck. I agree that they should keep their noses out of situations that do not pertain to them, however the killing of innocents is perpetrated by both Israelis and Palestinians - not George Bush...

And I am no Dubya fan at in the least little bit. I think he even gives w@nkers a bad name...
 

Fern9do

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Look nobody knows what Obama will do once he takes over, we will have to wait till he well...takes over, but at least I can hope for the INNOCENT Palestinians sake that things will be different to what they were over the last 8 years of the Bush administration.
 

kingmonty

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Did I say that Bush is the reason for the conflict DJK?

Bush is definitely not helping the situation by encouraging Isreal to kill more and more innocent woman and children.

:confused: where has he ever encouraged this?
 

DJ...

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Look nobody knows what Obama will do once he takes over, we will have to wait till he well...takes over, but at least I can hope for the INNOCENT Palestinians sake that things will be different to what they were over the last 8 years of the Bush administration.

Because he was to blame? You keep coming back to this, however it is not the US' issue and you make out as if they're to blame, then in one post say you're not accusing him of being the perpetrator, then in the next come back and say he is. Make up your mind - is the US to blame for the travesty? If you want to say partly so, then how so?
 

Fern9do

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:confused: where has he ever encouraged this?
In his weekly radio address President George W Bush said Hamas was responsible for the latest violence and rejected any unilateral ceasefire that he said would allow Hamas to continue to fire on Israel.

He added that no peace deal would be acceptable without tougher action to prevent Hamas and other groups from receiving weapons.

"There must be monitoring mechanisms in place to help ensure the smuggling of weapons to terrorist groups in Gaza comes to an end," he said.

"I urge all parties to pressure Hamas to turn away from terror and to support legitimate Palestinian leaders working for peace," Mr Bush added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7809289.stm

Typical Bush BS...
 

Fern9do

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Because he was to blame? You keep coming back to this, however it is not the US' issue and you make out as if they're to blame, then in one post say you're not accusing him of being the perpetrator, then in the next come back and say he is. Make up your mind - is the US to blame for the travesty? If you want to say partly so, then how so?

I will put in in simple terms.

>US not the cause for the conflict. That is Hamas and Isreal.
>US not helping the situation by encouraging Isreal to kill more innocent Palestinians.
 

Fern9do

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I fail to see how this is encouraging, how did you put it, "Isreal to kill more and more innocent woman and children"

:rolleyes:

That would be the part in bold. No peace deal would be acceptable.

No matter how many innocent woman and children die.....No peace deal would be acceptable.
...according to Bush
 

DJ...

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I will put in in simple terms.

>US not the cause for the conflict. That is Hamas and Isreal.
>US not helping the situation by encouraging Isreal to kill more innocent Palestinians.

Well then stop stating that you hope the violence against women and children will stop when Bush is out. You're just admitting here that he isn't perpetrating anything and if your previous post is all the evidence you can provide for the administration encouraging violence against women and children, then it further serves to prove that it has sweet bugger all to do with Bush...
 
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