The Middle East Conflict Thread

[Fern9do]

This mite interest you Frankie...seeing as you are so sure of what Obama will do once he takes over....


Obama silent on Israel air strike

His silence is disturbing and adds to the suspicion that Obama will not support Israel in the same manner as the last three Presidents.

He has gone out of his way to imply that he will change the U.S. Mid East policy from the status quo. The Los Angeles Times reports. “Obama has committed himself to immediately restarting peace efforts and has made known that one of his first foreign policy moves will be a speech in the Muslim world aimed at creating a new beginning for U.S. relations with the religion’s 1.5 billion adherents.”

This uncertain Obama mid-east policy is probably one of the reasons that Israel started it’s air war now, knowing that it would get tacit approval from the Bush administration.

Obama’s silence is a reaffirmation that the President Elect will not support Israel and instead try to appease the Arab world.

“President-elect Obama is closely monitoring global events, including the situation in Gaza, but there is one president at a time,” said Brooke Anderson, Obama’s chief national security spokeswoman.

Full article here

 

[Fern9do]

bru, you keep on leaving out the important part of the sentence -

I guess by other groups they mean innocent Palestinians. Like the poor man who lost his son when Israeli's blew up their truck filled with gas cylinders,

 

[kingmonty]

That would be the part in bold. No peace deal would be acceptable.

No matter how many innocent woman and children die.....No peace deal would be acceptable.
...according to Bush

Well, if you keep quoting portions out of context, you can make him say anything. Either way, Bush did NOT encourage "Isreal to kill more and more innocent woman and children".

 

[Fern9do]

In Dense Gaza, Civilians Suffer

“I haven’t seen too many tears shed in Paris, London or Berlin over the fact that we have hit Hamas targets,” said Mark Regev, a spokesman for Israel’s prime minister, Ehud Olmert. “So we have many reasons, both moral and political, for doing the utmost to make sure that our strikes are as surgical as possible.”

Yet....

The day before, Dr. Madhoun, a general practitioner, was in an ambulance responding to an Israeli strike at the Jabalya refugee camp in northern Gaza. Another missile hit the ambulance. The driver, Muhammad Abu Hasira, died instantly. Dr. Madhoun lingered for a day, dying of his wounds on Wednesday in the intensive care unit of Shifa Hospital, where hundreds of people have been brought since Israel began its heaviest assault on Gaza in three decades.

The dentist cried.

“He was just doing his work,” said the dentist, who would not give his name. “He’s a doctor, and I can’t understand why Israel would hit an ambulance. They can tell from the cameras it’s an ambulance.”

It has always been this way, over years of conflict here, that civilians are killed in the densely populated Gaza Strip when Israel stages military operations it says are essential for its security. But five days of Israeli airstrikes have surpassed past operations in scale and intensity; the long-distance bombardment of the Hamas-controlled territory has, however well aimed at those suspected of being militants, splintered families and shattered homes in one of the most densely populated places on Earth.

Among the total dead — between 320 and 390, according to the United Nations — Palestinian medical officials say that 38 were children and 25 were women. The United Nations agency that helps Palestinian refugees said 25 percent of those killed had been civilians. Israel said it knew of 40 civilian deaths but that it was still checking.

Read Full article here

Good to know that at least the Israeli's are being surgical

 

[DJ...]

In Dense Gaza, Civilians Suffer

Yet....

Read Full article here

Good to know that at least the Israeli's are being surgical

And Hamas kill civilian Israelis. So what? It's a game of tit for tat. Like I said earlier in this thread, it's plain stupid to defend one side in this conflict IMO as they are both to blame, and picking sides is like defending one of two equally violent extremes. For every story detailing an innocent Palestinian killed, there is one detailing an equally violent version of events where an innocent Israeli is killed. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye. Blind attacking the stupid. A pointless conflict, and an equally pointless objective to try to lead the two sides to diplomacy. Let them kill each other once and for all and lets all move on...

 

[Fern9do]

Eight days of fighting so far have left more than 460 Palestinians dead and four Israelis were killed by rocket fire. Gaza is densely populated, and intense urban warfare in those conditions could exact a much higher civilian toll. The U.N. estimates that at least a quarter of the Palestinians killed so far were civilian.

How is that tit for tat?

 

[Fern9do]

I think I should stop posting here. You guys have no idea how much it hurts to see your INNOCENT Muslim brothers and sisters being killed by these bastards...I can't even sleep.

 

[kingmonty]

I think I should stop posting here. You guys have no idea how much it hurts to see your INNOCENT Muslim brothers and sisters being killed by these bastards...I can't even sleep.

They're not all innocent. Neither are the Israelis.

If you can't sleep, take a pill.

 

[Fern9do]

will do that. good night

 

[DJ...]

Oh come now. Look at the bigger picture. I'm not isolating the last 8 days. This conflict is older than any of us and both sides are to blame for this. To isolate nearly 100 years of fighting to 8 days and base your opinion on that is rather futile and silly. A conflict of such duration is never one sided as you attempt to portray and stems a lot deeper than just Hamas from a Palestinian perspective.

It is the most ridiculous conflict considering the nature of the "squabble" and seeing as neither side can resolve their issues with each other, or are prepared to do so over the long-term, it stands to reason that the rest of the world should pull out and let the silly twits resolve it themselves with as much violence as they wish. Neither side in the modern era of the conflict are prepared to budge. Hamas say they want peace, then take over Gaza knowing full well that Israel will respond with force. Then when force is responded with, they bitch and moan. Same goes for Israel who occupied the territory, then pulled out, then fight because Hamas took it over. FFS, it is just plain stupid.

In the modern era of the conflict (if you want to limit it so), Hamas will not recognise Israel's right to existence and Israel will not accept Hamas as anything but a terrorist organisation. Tit for tat. And of course there will be more casualties on Palestine's side- Israel has more fire-power and a win-at-all-costs attitude. That attitude is no different to Hamas' - more tit for tat. However Hamas don't have as much fire-power. Stands to reason there will be more casualties on their side, especially considering they're a bit of a n00b on the political leadership front as well and land up using sone pretty underhanded "war techniques" to make up for their lack of firepower. Such as basing themselves in heavily civilian saturated areas.

And to cry that one side has killed more than the other is silly again. It's a conflict - they don't weigh up the casualties and then turn to the opposition and say "We have 27 kills and you have 76 - that's no fair - we should be allowed to kill a few more of your people now".

This really is a stupid debate because nothing will ever come of it. Both sides are full of schit and don't deserve a helping hand from anyone. Nor bleeding hearts whinging about some people who were killed there. If SA became a war-zone, I'd certainly not stick around to watch it take place. However, if I did, I wouldn't go bitching and moaning because someone died. It's not like they're not aware of the fscking bullets flying over their own heads. You might argue that they want to be there and want their leaders to defend their right to be there - well then that's their choice, knowing full well what the risks are.

I do see an easy diplomacy option - neither faction occupies Gaza. It becomes a tourist attraction with a DisneyWorld theme park, casino hotels and bullet trains between Bethlehem and Jerusalem. Palestinians and Israelis share the revenue...

 

[DJ...]

I think I should stop posting here. You guys have no idea how much it hurts to see your INNOCENT Muslim brothers and sisters being killed by these bastards...I can't even sleep.

Considering I don't really see it from a religious perspective, let me ask you this:

If Zimbabwe fired rockets into South Africa, killed a few people, refused to accept South Africa as a state, threatened continued violence, then took over part of our land, what should South Africa's response to that be? Diplomacy? Retaliation? Outright invasion? An what would world perception to Zimbabwe be?

And vica versa - what would happen if we did that to Zimbabwe? And what do you think world perception would be?

 

[krycor]

Considering I don't really see it from a religious perspective, let me ask you this:

If Zimbabwe fired rockets into South Africa, killed a few people, refused to accept South Africa as a state, threatened continued violence, then took over part of our land, what should South Africa's response to that be? Diplomacy? Retaliation? Outright invasion? An what would world perception to Zimbabwe be?

And vica versa - what would happen if we did that to Zimbabwe? And what do you think world perception would be?

Problem with your analogy is that Zimbabwe and South africa have been separate countries from the offset, and you forgetting that we do not control/blockade borders of Zimbabwe neither do we invade zim even if to chase their disgruntled mercenaries who are very likely linked to some crime in SA. Its just not done?

A better analogy would be SA post World War 1, when we kicked the Nazi's out of Namibia? and then took control of it <with the backing of the League of Nations nogal> heck calling it North West Africa.. Of cause SA took FULL advantage of the situation even handling it like another province mineral wealth etc. Eventually of cause they got their freedom after fighting for it. bah.. even this is not a good analogy but it does highlight the whole .. a terrorist is a terrorist to those its a pest because thats what those 'freedom fighters' used to be called Of cause my definition of terrorist differs vastly and civilian death is completely unacceptable even if fighting for freedom.

In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict the Palestinian state is NOT a state, You cannot be a state if you have zero control over anything. And yes I know marine1 will be itching to scream about how can you be a state when you can't control terrorists etc but that just fuels the fire.

The are basically 2 schools of thought amongst the Palestinians, most just want peace .. but not just peace for Israeli's as they define it. Look at every single Peace deal that Israel is wiling to accept and you will notice that they are NOT offering a sovereign state as such but rather a homeland. The Palestinians do not get any rights this a fact and Israel justifies this with the terrorist actions upon it. But thats just a no win situation as no-one will agree to live under oppression and so fighting goes on.

Then there is the live together in harmony with equal rights for all but this knocked off by the Israeli's who want a separatist state. How the heck this is even allowed, in this day and age is beyond me, but then the US backs it so what will be will be.

In the end, you can lie to yourself about a separatist state ever working +/- terrorism.. it just wont. No country in the world has ever succeeded to have a racially or ethnically divided country and i don't see this changing. For lasting peace there is only one option and the Israeli's in their current Zionist form will never concede to it.

 

[DJ...]

Problem with your analogy is that Zimbabwe and South africa have been separate countries from the offset, and you forgetting that we do not control/blockade borders of Zimbabwe neither do we invade zim even if to chase their disgruntled mercenaries who are very likely linked to some crime in SA. Its just not done?

It's a hypothetical analogy intended to move the focus away from unrelenting support based on a religion, and only a religion. Hence the South African analogy. And I'm not trying to use it as a perfect analogy for the issue, I'm trying to gauge how fern9do would feel if this were closer to home and nothing to do with his religion. Because even though this stems from religion, it's now a case of support all actions of one side and attack the other, purely because we share a religion - that's absurd...

 

[marine1]

I think I should stop posting here. You guys have no idea how much it hurts to see your INNOCENT Muslim brothers and sisters being killed by these bastards...I can't even sleep.

What utter cr@p. They are anything but innocent.

 

[marine1]

A packed mosque?
Only 7 people died?
Was the Mosque 2m x 2m?

Or was it 20m x 20m packed with ammunition

ROFLMAO

 

[marine1]

Israeli tanks and infantry have entered Gaza, to continue their murderous rampage.

Murder on the ground

Excellent

There is no justification for punishing 1.5 million in the Gaza Strip because of the actions of a few


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-gaza3-2009jan03,0,3047035.story

You are leaving out a key fact that the MAJORITY voted for HamA$$ so they are all responsible.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/03/israel.gaza/index.html
/excellent news, time to go and clean the area out once and for all. Blow up the tunnels where the rats live and get rid of Ham A$$

 

[BBSA]

I think I should stop posting here. You guys have no idea how much it hurts to see your INNOCENT Muslim brothers and sisters being killed by these bastards...I can't even sleep.

The moment Hamas(you Muslim brothers and sisters) stop firing rockets at Israeli citizen the IDF will stop their actions, it is as simple as that. If you really want to help you brothers and sisters you will stop supporting terrorism.

People are dying and you are worried that you can not sleep.......

 

[marine1]

Now lets see, The Pallies were warned for a long time about the ground offensive. Lets see how many "innocent" people are killed this time, again.

 

[marine1]

Did anyone just see those animals in the streets in London? Seriously what the hell has happened to the UK? Arabs basically rioting there. What a disgrace
Guys switch on Sky News.

This is going to be a long battle and Israel need to push through until the end and wipe out Ham A$$ once and for all.

I still think Iran is up to something, I am convinced they are pushing the focus away from themselves. Maybe some nuclear weapon technology??

 

[marine1]

8 killed, 5 of them gunmen in Gaza City !!
Israeli forces deep inside Gaza with more than 100 tanks.