The Middle East Conflict Thread

[BBSA]

1. Stop treating the Hama's government like terrorists.
2. Stop treating the Palestinians like animals.
3. Stop the blockade, and treat them like you would any other country.
4. Treat them with respect, like you would any other country.

Walla, peace!

Not true, Hamas is calling for the destruction of Israel.

 

[rwenzori]

Where did all that aid money go rwenzori?

Dunno - you tell me.

 

[Alan]

So how must one treat on organization that straps bombs to kids and sends them off to kill innocent civilians on a bus

 

[rwenzori]

Not true, Hamas is calling for the destruction of Israel.

And why do you think that is?
goto 1

 

[inferno]

Not true, Hamas is calling for the destruction of Israel.

They do that because Israel is:

1. Treating the Hama's government like terrorists.
2. Treating the Palestinians like animals.
3. Blockading them - not allowing food or supply's in - even during ceasefires.

 

[Zyzzyva]

1. Stop treating the Hama's government like terrorists.
2. Stop treating the Palestinians like animals.
3. Stop the blockade, and treat them like you would any other country.
4. Treat them with respect, like you would any other country.

Walla, peace!

Your logic is good to a point, yes that normally promotes peace, but the other factor your are not including in your assesment is hamas want to destroy israel.

If you give them all that your speak of, do you think they will stop wanting to destroy israel?

The truth is, whatever you give them, they will twist to their benefit, and then use it to follow on with their primary objective, namely the destruction of Israel.

If you give them a working economy, and happiness, they will just used the money generated by this new working economy to buy bigger bombs, and planes. Then you will get back to my original point.

If they get bigger bombs, the war would be bigger, and more people would die on both sides. Keeping them weak is sadly a necessary evil.

 

[d0b33]

Not true, Hamas is calling for the destruction of Israel.

Actually Hamas was about to recognize Israel back in 2006...

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip — After weeks of negotiations, the rival Hamas and Fatah groups on Tuesday reached agreement on a plan that implicitly recognizes Israel, a top Palestinian official said.

"We have an agreement over the document," Ibrahim Abu Najah said.

Salah Zeidan, another negotiator, said a formal signing ceremony would come soon. "All political groups are prepared for a mutual cease-fire with Israel," he added.

President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah has been trying to coax Hamas into backing the document, which was written by senior Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

Abbas has promoted the plan as a way to reopen peace talks with Israel and end economic sanctions that have crippled the Hamas-led Palestinian government.

link

But we all now How Hamas was isolated soon after this by the West.

 

[Zyzzyva]

They do that because Israel is:

1. Treating the Hama's government like terrorists.
2. Treating the Palestinians like animals.
3. Blockading them - not allowing food or supply's in - even during ceasefires.

Yes treating them like that adds fuel to the fire, but its not the primary reason. Perhaps you should go read up on the whole jerusalem issue. It's a religious land issue.

Lol, i'm sure Rwenzori is goign to love me saying that.

/me gives rwenzori a podium, and awaits the speech.

 

[BBSA]

They do that because Israel is:

1. Treating the Hama's government like terrorists.
2. Treating the Palestinians like animals.
3. Blockading them - not allowing food or supply's in - even during ceasefires.

Hamas is a terrorist group and does not want peace.

Israel wants peace. They have withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and dismantled settlements, but what did the Palestinians do, fire more rockets on Israeli cities.

 

[Zyzzyva]

Actually Hamas was about to recognize Israel back in 2006...

link

But we all now How Hamas was isolated soon after this by the West.

It's a little naive to think it would have really lasted.

 

[inferno]

So how must one treat on organization that straps bombs to kids and sends them off to kill innocent civilians on a bus

The same way you treat a organization that straps bombs to aircraft and then sends them off to kill thousands of innocent men, children and woman.

PS: I haven't seen any reports lately about children suicide bombers, could you please show me a link so i can check it out?

 

[d0b33]

It's a little naive to think it would have really lasted.

Without the West/Israel willing to approach Hamas and isolate them soon after this, of course it would not last.

 

[assassin]

Not true, Hamas is calling for the destruction of Israel.

BBSA, what about the 18 month siege of gaza that has left Palestine in a Humanitarian catastrophe. It would seem that Israel has taken the term 'Collateral damage' to a new level of perverse.

I agree that Hamas has been firing rockets but the rockets are fired on land that Israel calls the occupied territories i.e Palestinan land.

If israel was so worried about this maybe they should have left the lands to the palestinans.

It seems to me that everyone is under the the impression that since HAmas was an elected government. The people should be held accountable.

Look at the history of the region.

No matter which government was in place there is always and excuse or demand from Israel before they will negotiate.
Make no mistake this is nothing but a political camapaign which the Palestians are paying for with Civillians woman and children (oh yes and a few Hamas operatives).

I find it amazing that israel says that there is no humanitrain crisis, yet the UN
has said that even with 100 trucks of aid. There is no way to make up for the 18 month of sanctions Israel placed on Gaza

 

[inferno]

Justify this:

 

[Frankie]

Ideology wants world domination by violent means

Hamas is a terrorist group and does not want peace.

There is one common denominator here:
Hamarse, Iran, Bali bombing, London 7/7, Glasgow Airport, Mumbai, Abu Hamza, Omar Bakri, Abu Qatada, Abu Bakar Ba'asyir, 9/11 WTC, .....

All motivated by the same ideology that does not want peace, but world domination by violent means.

I wonder why this classic post by Peter goes unchallenged - absolutely no response other than one that made a very feeble attempt.

 

[BBSA]

BBSA, what about the 18 month siege of gaza that has left Palestine in a Humanitarian catastrophe.

This was in response to 697 rockets and 822 mortar bombs fired at Israeli towns.

I agree that Hamas has been firing rockets but the rockets are fired on land that Israel calls the occupied territories i.e Palestinan land.

Not sure where you get your facts, but they fired at Israeli towns and not occupied territories.

If Israel was so worried about this maybe they should have left the lands to the palestinans.

Remember the Arabs attacked them.

It seems to me that everyone is under the the impression that since HAmas was an elected government. The people should be held accountable.

If you elect a terrorist group as you government you must expect some consequences.

 

[semiautomatix]

Justify this:

1947: Legal partition mandated by UN to land lost in WWI. Land lost by the Ottoman Empire in a war where they were the aggressors; Germany, Austro-Hungaria and allies also lose land.
1949-1967: Israel was suddenly and deliberately attacked by Palestine and its allies. The resultant land loss was due to the Arabs losing a war they began (much like German land losses in WWI and WWII).
1967: Egypt and Jordan once again forced Israel's hand by instigating a naval blockade against all Israeli ships in a prelude to war. Once again the Arab nations lose a war they began, as such all Palestinian land is ceded to the State of Israel.
2000: Israel kindly returns much land to the Palestinians despite their aggressive past behaviour.

So we can see, had the Ottoman Empire not gone to war against the Allies; had Palestine and its allies not started a war against Israel; had Jordan and Egypt not created a war with Israel, then a Palestinian controlled state might still exist. They made their bed and now they have to lie in it.

 

[Xarog]

I cant argue.

How true.

 

[LazyLion]

Justify this:

So Palestine belonged to the "Palestinian people" before 1947 according to that map? That is complete bull. It was a British mandate. There were Jews AND Palestinians living there... but there was no sovereign state. Your map is complete propaganda.

 

[rwenzori]

Once again the Arab nations lose a war they began, as such all Palestinian land is ceded to the State of Israel.

They made their bed and now they have to lie in it.

Seeing as you tout frequently the legality of the UN resolution forming the state of Israel, why do you then not back the UN resolutions calling for Israel to pull out of the occupied territories and stating that territory gained by war is gained illegally?

Not really, but even if true, then don't complain about your Israelis being rocketed.